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Post by Reptisaurus! on Feb 23, 2019 16:55:56 GMT -5
As a Brit, it's disgraceful that I don't know about these. Perhaps I did, but nothing comes to mind. Do you have any further info, please? Spider-Man fought Assassin-8 in a UK-originated storyline in Spider-Man #607-610 by Mike Collins, Barry Kitson, Mark Farmer and Jerry Paris, dating from 1984. Apparently they were were considering switching to original material in case reprints featuring Spider-Man's black costume proved Thank you! I totally forgot the circumstances - even the time period - surrounding the production of these stories, and I couldn't find anything on google! |
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
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Post by Confessor on Feb 23, 2019 21:15:55 GMT -5
As a Brit, it's disgraceful that I don't know about these. Perhaps I did, but nothing comes to mind. Do you have any further info, please? I...uh... could be wrong? I thought that America didn't quite produce enough material to fill the British Spider-Man weekly for a short while. My half-remembered source on this is Back Issue Magazine # 83, but I can't find my copy. This is essentially right, I believe, Repti, -- certainly that was the case for the UK exclusive Star Wars stories that appeared over here. However, I don't think there were all that many original UK Spidey comics. I think it was also something to do with Marvel UK being a bit nervous about the new black Spider-Man costume, so that when he came back from Secret Wars in the U.S. they printed some original stories over here where he was still in the red and blues. That's as I understand it, anyway, but really, tingramretro is your man. He doesn't post much here anymore, but there's no other member here who knows more about British comics than him. I'm sure he can give us the low down. EDIT: I see chaykinstevens kinda got there before me. That'll teach me to not read to the end of the thread before posting.  |
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Post by tingramretro on Mar 1, 2019 3:45:27 GMT -5
I...uh... could be wrong? I thought that America didn't quite produce enough material to fill the British Spider-Man weekly for a short while. My half-remembered source on this is Back Issue Magazine # 83, but I can't find my copy. This is essentially right, I believe, Repti, -- certainly that was the case for the UK exclusive Star Wars stories that appeared over here. However, I don't think there were all that many original UK Spidey comics. I think it was also something to do with Marvel UK being a bit nervous about the new black Spider-Man costume, so that when he came back from Secret Wars in the U.S. they printed some original stories over here where he was still in the red and blues. That's as I understand it, anyway, but really, tingramretro is your man. He doesn't post much here anymore, but there's no other member here who knows more about British comics than him. I'm sure he can give us the low down. EDIT: I see chaykinstevens kinda got there before me. That'll teach me to not read to the end of the thread before posting. Marvel UK did publish one other original Spidey story, in Secret Wars #25 in December 1985. It was written by Jim Shooter, and drawn by Barry Kitson and Mark Farmer. Spidey visited Britain again and fought a Skrull on the set of kids TV show The Wide Awake Club. |
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Post by zaku on Mar 1, 2019 4:24:33 GMT -5
I've just read the Wikipedia page about Marvel UK and it was fascinating. I remember they published in Italy some titles of the imprint in 90s and I believe (it was more than 20 years ago!) that I quite liked Motormouth & Killpower... |
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,220
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Post by Confessor on Mar 1, 2019 6:53:30 GMT -5
This is essentially right, I believe, Repti, -- certainly that was the case for the UK exclusive Star Wars stories that appeared over here. However, I don't think there were all that many original UK Spidey comics. I think it was also something to do with Marvel UK being a bit nervous about the new black Spider-Man costume, so that when he came back from Secret Wars in the U.S. they printed some original stories over here where he was still in the red and blues. That's as I understand it, anyway, but really, tingramretro is your man. He doesn't post much here anymore, but there's no other member here who knows more about British comics than him. I'm sure he can give us the low down. EDIT: I see chaykinstevens kinda got there before me. That'll teach me to not read to the end of the thread before posting. Marvel UK did publish one other original Spidey story, in Secret Wars #25 in December 1985. It was written by Jim Shooter, and drawn by Barry Kitson and Mark Farmer. Spidey visited Britain again and fought a Skrull on the set of kids TV show The Wide Awake Club. Lol...that sounds amazing. Hopefully Spidey defeated the Skrull, made out with Michaela Strachan (who was a bit of a hottie back in the day), and Timmy Mallet was killed by a flying chunk of masonry. Spider-Man saves the day, gets the girl and makes Saturday morning kids' TV bearable again in one fell swoop. |
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Post by tingramretro on Mar 4, 2019 3:31:18 GMT -5
Marvel UK did publish one other original Spidey story, in Secret Wars #25 in December 1985. It was written by Jim Shooter, and drawn by Barry Kitson and Mark Farmer. Spidey visited Britain again and fought a Skrull on the set of kids TV show The Wide Awake Club. Lol...that sounds amazing. Hopefully Spidey defeated the Skrull, made out with Michaela Strachan (who was a bit of a hottie back in the day), and Timmy Mallet was killed by a flying chunk of masonry. Spider-Man saves the day, gets the girl and makes Saturday morning kids' TV bearable again in one fell swoop. Sadly not. Timmy lived to annoy another day. |
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Post by tingramretro on Mar 4, 2019 3:35:36 GMT -5
I've just read the Wikipedia page about Marvel UK and it was fascinating. I remember they published in Italy some titles of the imprint in 90s and I believe (it was more than 20 years ago!) that I quite liked Motormouth & Killpower... Motormouth and Killpower were a part of Marvel UK's attempt to break into the US market in the early 90's, which to me was their least memorable era. Most of their better material came out in the early eighties. I've never forgiven the 90's MUK crew for killing off Death's Head and replacing him with the tedious Death's Head II. |
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Post by zaku on Mar 4, 2019 10:35:13 GMT -5
I've just read the Wikipedia page about Marvel UK and it was fascinating. I remember they published in Italy some titles of the imprint in 90s and I believe (it was more than 20 years ago!) that I quite liked Motormouth & Killpower... Motormouth and Killpower were a part of Marvel UK's attempt to break into the US market in the early 90's, which to me was their least memorable era. Most of their better material came out in the early eighties. I've never forgiven the 90's MUK crew for killing off Death's Head and replacing him with the tedious Death's Head II. I have somewhere a Killpower issue signed by Gary Frank when he was in Italy for Lucca Comics. A nice fellow! I believe they published here the paperback with the early stories of Captain Britain by Moore and Davis... Googling... Yes they did!  |
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Post by chadwilliam on Mar 4, 2019 11:42:26 GMT -5
Though I'm no fan of most of Alan Moore's superhero work, it might be of interest to some of you to learn (or be reminded) that he wrote two short Superman pieces in the UK in 1984 and 1985 which, I don't believe, have ever been reprinted in North America. Interestingly, my reservations about the stuff he was putting out at roughly the same time in the States ("Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow", "The Killing Joke") don't apply to the material he was producing in the UK which are actually fun, charming, and embrace the source material in ways his darker, more mean spirited stuff over here didn't quite manage while still retaining the high level of intelligence his stories are known for. forgottenawesome.blogspot.com/2017/07/moores-earliest-superman-stories-part-1.htmlHe also wrote a Batman story over there for the 1985 Batman annual entitled 'The Gun' but I haven't found a transcript of that one yet. |
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Post by rberman on Mar 4, 2019 15:44:49 GMT -5
FYI, CBR was once the best comic site on the internet. The boards were always very active, and there was good content. They restructured in 2014 and wiped out everybody's comment history, and took away some specialty forums (Classic Comics, for instance). At first, they were unwilling to budge on any changes they had made, so a couple of industrious posters created the Classic Comics Forum. Besides the people who left CBR for this site, there was a large exodus of members who never signed back up. Although their boards still have more activity than anywhere else, most of the threads are character appreciation. It took a little while, but CBR has become a shadow of what it was. I have to admit that people had gotten pretty vile toward each other before the reset. Now they ban anybody who stirs the pot at all. I wasn't paying attention before the restructuring. I have visited CBR some since the restructuring and find the appreciation threads a terrible way to organize. What good is a single hundred page thread about Metamorpho, rather than a series of shorter threads about different stories in which he has appeared? Not to mention how many of the discussions are about who characters "should" be dating. Zzzzzz... |
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Post by tingramretro on Mar 9, 2019 20:15:35 GMT -5
Motormouth and Killpower were a part of Marvel UK's attempt to break into the US market in the early 90's, which to me was their least memorable era. Most of their better material came out in the early eighties. I've never forgiven the 90's MUK crew for killing off Death's Head and replacing him with the tedious Death's Head II. I have somewhere a Killpower issue signed by Gary Frank when he was in Italy for Lucca Comics. A nice fellow! I believe they published here the paperback with the early stories of Captain Britain by Moore and Davis... Googling... Yes they did! Those weren't really "the early stories". The character had been around for five years by then. |
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Post by tingramretro on Mar 9, 2019 20:20:23 GMT -5
Though I'm no fan of most of Alan Moore's superhero work, it might be of interest to some of you to learn (or be reminded) that he wrote two short Superman pieces in the UK in 1984 and 1985 which, I don't believe, have ever been reprinted in North America. Interestingly, my reservations about the stuff he was putting out at roughly the same time in the States ("Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow", "The Killing Joke") don't apply to the material he was producing in the UK which are actually fun, charming, and embrace the source material in ways his darker, more mean spirited stuff over here didn't quite manage while still retaining the high level of intelligence his stories are known for. forgottenawesome.blogspot.com/2017/07/moores-earliest-superman-stories-part-1.htmlHe also wrote a Batman story over there for the 1985 Batman annual entitled 'The Gun' but I haven't found a transcript of that one yet. I'm not quite sure why you consider his mainstream DC stuff "mean spirited", but I did enjoy his work on DC characters in the Egmont annuals. |
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Post by chadwilliam on Mar 10, 2019 1:11:16 GMT -5
Though I'm no fan of most of Alan Moore's superhero work, it might be of interest to some of you to learn (or be reminded) that he wrote two short Superman pieces in the UK in 1984 and 1985 which, I don't believe, have ever been reprinted in North America. Interestingly, my reservations about the stuff he was putting out at roughly the same time in the States ("Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow", "The Killing Joke") don't apply to the material he was producing in the UK which are actually fun, charming, and embrace the source material in ways his darker, more mean spirited stuff over here didn't quite manage while still retaining the high level of intelligence his stories are known for. forgottenawesome.blogspot.com/2017/07/moores-earliest-superman-stories-part-1.htmlHe also wrote a Batman story over there for the 1985 Batman annual entitled 'The Gun' but I haven't found a transcript of that one yet. I'm not quite sure why you consider his mainstream DC stuff "mean spirited", but I did enjoy his work on DC characters in the Egmont annuals. Not all of it - I quite like his Clayface IV tale in Batman Annual 11, for instance - but "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?" Ugh. Bizarro going on a killing spree? Toyman and Prankster torturing Pete Ross to death? Mxyzptlk promising 3000 years (or whatever it was) of sadism? Jimmy Olsen - DEAD! Lana Lang - DEAD! Krypto - DEAD! Superman's little coda at the end renouncing who he used to be? Really brings a tear to the eye. And this was supposed to be Superman's big send off? I guess the wink at the end was meant to cancel out the whole "Superman was nothing but a big blowhard who thought the world couldn't get along without him" bit but bringing all this wonderful Silver Age magic back just to soak it in blood isn't really bringing it back. "Killing Joke"? The Joker blows a hole through Batgirl's spine and sexually assaults her and her father. Even when he wrote Supreme, Moore seemed to be taking quite a bit of his inspiration from all those Silver Age tales which if viewed through a modern lens, would make Superman look like a creepy, emotionally stunted man-child unable to have normal relationships with regular people. I can't really fault Moore for this since "how would all these conventions look in the real world" is a big component of his writing style and not without merit to a point, but the fact that Moore is clearly familiar with Superman's history but chose to reference only the "Superman doesn't know how to go on a date with Lois without resorting to some sort of deception" stuff and not the "Superman is a noble, selfless individual who we should admire for his principles" stuff rubbed me the wrong way, though I admit that the series does still have its charms. I'm not denying his talent ("genius" is a fair description, in fact) but for all his skills - he's poignant, profound, insightful, intelligent - he seems either incapable or uninterested in using superheroes to create something uplifting or inspiring or optimistic. Superman realises that he was naïve to think the world needed him? Batman and Joker share a laugh after the latter cripples Barbara Gordon? This, Moore can manage. Superman needs to restore a little girl's faith in humanity when an accident destroys her sight? Superman is dying from kryptonite poisoning but devotes himself to a series of good deeds before he dies? Moore would be completely out of his element even if it occurred to him to write something along these lines. EDITED TO ADD:I should say "1980's/90s Moore would be completely out of his element even if..." since his work on Top Ten proved that Moore can write inspiring and touching heroes. That Alan Moore I love - it's the earlier Alan Moore that I take issue with. |
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Post by tingramretro on Mar 11, 2019 4:04:01 GMT -5
I'm not quite sure why you consider his mainstream DC stuff "mean spirited", but I did enjoy his work on DC characters in the Egmont annuals. Not all of it - I quite like his Clayface IV tale in Batman Annual 11, for instance - but "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?" Ugh. Bizarro going on a killing spree? Toyman and Prankster torturing Pete Ross to death? Mxyzptlk promising 3000 years (or whatever it was) of sadism? Jimmy Olsen - DEAD! Lana Lang - DEAD! Krypto - DEAD! Superman's little coda at the end renouncing who he used to be? Really brings a tear to the eye. And this was supposed to be Superman's big send off? I guess the wink at the end was meant to cancel out the whole "Superman was nothing but a big blowhard who thought the world couldn't get along without him" bit but bringing all this wonderful Silver Age magic back just to soak it in blood isn't really bringing it back. "Killing Joke"? The Joker blows a hole through Batgirl's spine and sexually assaults her and her father. Even when he wrote Supreme, Moore seemed to be taking quite a bit of his inspiration from all those Silver Age tales which if viewed through a modern lens, would make Superman look like a creepy, emotionally stunted man-child unable to have normal relationships with regular people. I can't really fault Moore for this since "how would all these conventions look in the real world" is a big component of his writing style and not without merit to a point, but the fact that Moore is clearly familiar with Superman's history but chose to reference only the "Superman doesn't know how to go on a date with Lois without resorting to some sort of deception" stuff and not the "Superman is a noble, selfless individual who we should admire for his principles" stuff rubbed me the wrong way, though I admit that the series does still have its charms. I'm not denying his talent ("genius" is a fair description, in fact) but for all his skills - he's poignant, profound, insightful, intelligent - he seems either incapable or uninterested in using superheroes to create something uplifting or inspiring or optimistic. Superman realises that he was naïve to think the world needed him? Batman and Joker share a laugh after the latter cripples Barbara Gordon? This, Moore can manage. Superman needs to restore a little girl's faith in humanity when an accident destroys her sight? Superman is dying from kryptonite poisoning but devotes himself to a series of good deeds before he dies? Moore would be completely out of his element even if it occurred to him to write something along these lines. EDITED TO ADD:I should say "1980's/90s Moore would be completely out of his element even if..." since his work on Top Ten proved that Moore can write inspiring and touching heroes. That Alan Moore I love - it's the earlier Alan Moore that I take issue with. Well, needless to say I don't see it that way. It was 1980's Alan Moore who wrote Skizz, which I still consider one of the most uplifting, life affirming series' ever published in 2000 AD, and The Ballad of Halo Jones, which is wonderful. I think you're viewing him just from the perspective of his superhero stuff, which is a mistake. Also, while I've heard many people interpret what Joker did to Babs and her dad in The Killing Joke, it's an assumption that's always baffled me; it's not even implied in the story, let alone shown, and Moore himself has in the past seemed bemused by the assumption; as far as he's concerned, it seems, Joker simply shot Babs and humiliated Jim. Moore has said in the past that he doesn't consider Joker to be a sexual being at all.
Of course, it may well be that your views are being coloured by your love for the Silver Age stuff, which admittedly Moore seems at times to delight in showing up as absurd. As a child of the 70's, and not an American, I don't have that emotional connection to the Silver Age Superman mythos. I just always found it a bit daft.
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Post by chadwilliam on Mar 11, 2019 5:22:09 GMT -5
Not all of it - I quite like his Clayface IV tale in Batman Annual 11, for instance - but "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?" Ugh. Bizarro going on a killing spree? Toyman and Prankster torturing Pete Ross to death? Mxyzptlk promising 3000 years (or whatever it was) of sadism? Jimmy Olsen - DEAD! Lana Lang - DEAD! Krypto - DEAD! Superman's little coda at the end renouncing who he used to be? Really brings a tear to the eye. And this was supposed to be Superman's big send off? I guess the wink at the end was meant to cancel out the whole "Superman was nothing but a big blowhard who thought the world couldn't get along without him" bit but bringing all this wonderful Silver Age magic back just to soak it in blood isn't really bringing it back. "Killing Joke"? The Joker blows a hole through Batgirl's spine and sexually assaults her and her father. Even when he wrote Supreme, Moore seemed to be taking quite a bit of his inspiration from all those Silver Age tales which if viewed through a modern lens, would make Superman look like a creepy, emotionally stunted man-child unable to have normal relationships with regular people. I can't really fault Moore for this since "how would all these conventions look in the real world" is a big component of his writing style and not without merit to a point, but the fact that Moore is clearly familiar with Superman's history but chose to reference only the "Superman doesn't know how to go on a date with Lois without resorting to some sort of deception" stuff and not the "Superman is a noble, selfless individual who we should admire for his principles" stuff rubbed me the wrong way, though I admit that the series does still have its charms. I'm not denying his talent ("genius" is a fair description, in fact) but for all his skills - he's poignant, profound, insightful, intelligent - he seems either incapable or uninterested in using superheroes to create something uplifting or inspiring or optimistic. Superman realises that he was naïve to think the world needed him? Batman and Joker share a laugh after the latter cripples Barbara Gordon? This, Moore can manage. Superman needs to restore a little girl's faith in humanity when an accident destroys her sight? Superman is dying from kryptonite poisoning but devotes himself to a series of good deeds before he dies? Moore would be completely out of his element even if it occurred to him to write something along these lines. EDITED TO ADD:I should say "1980's/90s Moore would be completely out of his element even if..." since his work on Top Ten proved that Moore can write inspiring and touching heroes. That Alan Moore I love - it's the earlier Alan Moore that I take issue with. Well, needless to say I don't see it that way. It was 1980's Alan Moore who wrote Skizz, which I still consider one of the most uplifting, life affirming series' ever published in 2000 AD, and The Ballad of Halo Jones, which is wonderful. I think you're viewing him just from the perspective of his superhero stuff, which is a mistake. Also, while I've heard many people interpret what Joker did to Babs and her dad in The Killing Joke, it's an assumption that's always baffled me; it's not even implied in the story, let alone shown, and Moore himself has in the past seemed bemused by the assumption; as far as he's concerned, it seems, Joker simply shot Babs and humiliated Jim. Moore has said in the past that he doesn't consider Joker to be a sexual being at all.
Of course, it may well be that your views are being coloured by your love for the Silver Age stuff, which admittedly Moore seems at times to delight in showing up as absurd. As a child of the 70's, and not an American, I don't have that emotional connection to the Silver Age Superman mythos. I just always found it a bit daft.
Not sure what I'm missing here - what's not implied/shown in the story? The sexual assault? He shoots her, takes off her clothes, and takes photos of her naked, bloody body (I can't believe I'm talking about a Batman comic book here) and then shows those photos to her father who he's also stripped naked. There's no reading between the lines - it's right there. Moore doesn't have to treat the Silver Age as sacrosanct or serious or not point out its flaws or its stupidity - much as I love a lot of that period, there's much I have to struggle to get through if I read it at all (Batman and Robin making stupid jokes while fighting The Eraser, for example) or simply hate about it myself (that period's treatment of women - see; Lois Lane) - it's just that he doesn't move beyond doing anything else. I can't blame anyone for thinking its "a bit daft" (I'm certainly not going to defend Superman dancing The Krypton Crawl or putting a disguise on a fish to protect his secret identity from Lois Lane for the thousandth time) but if you're writing an homage to The Silver Age Superman, it helps to not equate 'homage' with 'mocking'. I'm not familiar with most of his 2000AD stuff so you may be 100% right about it being what it is. I suppose I should have said "I'm no fan of most of Alan Moore's American superhero work" instead. |
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