Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2019 6:41:28 GMT -5
Marvel Comics' The Champions ran for a mere 17 issues from 1975-78. I wasn't around at the time, but I did read some back issues many years ago. I was pretty lukewarm about it despite enjoying the characters. And from historical stuff I've read, it seems that they didn't exactly set the world alight. So, why didn't they succeed?
Firstly, I think the Avengers are the flagship team of Marvel. And then there's the Defenders. One cannot compare the original incarnations of these teams as it's akin to comparing apples and oranges; The Defenders were more of a "non-team" who only had a very loose alliance, coming together as and when required. They had no charter or rules. I have no idea of the motivations behind the production of this book, but perhaps they just wanted another team book and used characters not serving in the Avengers.
The Defenders didn't feel like a cash cow. Just my view, of course. And Dr. Strange, Hulk, Namor and Silver Surfer were and are all strong characters.
That brings me to the Champions. What follows are opinions and guesswork.
For starters, it seems like the perception at the time was that this was an inferior group. One reason for that was, and many comic professionals have said this, that it almost seemed like someone had said, "These characters are so lame, that they couldn't even get a spot on the Defenders." That wasn't true - who could call Hercules or Ghost Rider lame? - but perception is a lot different to reality.
It felt third-tier. I am told that some at the time were saying things like, "We need a new super-team. Who's left?" To use a sports analogy, it'd be like a new football team being set up and taking on all the players that talent scouts had not bothered to pick. Even if those players had talents, people, human nature being what it is, were bound to look and say, "So we're left with people who no other team wanted?"
It's sad, but that is the way the cookie crumbles. Hercules and Ghost Rider - perhaps Iceman, too - should have made people wake up and take notice, but from comic fans I've chatted to over time, many have said that if these characters were any good, they'd have been in either the Defenders or the Avengers. Many have asked why they weren't. Again, that is unfair - Hercules did join the Avengers years later - but one cannot get past perceptions at times.
What else led to it not being a success?
Someone told me that the creative team couldn't use certain villains. Pluto was the villain in the first issue (gosh, typing that makes me think of Pluto the dog!). Other villains included Swarm, Warlord Kaa and Kamo Tharnn. With all due respect to those villains, does anyone rush out to buy books featuring them? I know a title has to come up with its own identity, but I'd have rather read stories featuring the Champions battling the likes of Juggernaut, Abomination, Magneto, etc.
The Defenders had a chance because of their non-team status. Their unique selling point was also the fact that they were loners brought together usually to fight mystical threats. That distinguished themselves from the Avengers. Other than the odd mix of characters in The Champions, what was their unique selling point? Their West Coast location? Perhaps, but that wasn't enough in and of itself. Whatever joy I had reading about them, it doesn't escape the fact that it was a mishmash of ideas featuring slightly less popular characters and prone to eliciting negative reactions from folk who perceived it all as second-rate.
I'd appreciate all thoughts, but particularly from anyone alive when the series was published. And does anyone have any insight into the creative process that led to the book?
Firstly, I think the Avengers are the flagship team of Marvel. And then there's the Defenders. One cannot compare the original incarnations of these teams as it's akin to comparing apples and oranges; The Defenders were more of a "non-team" who only had a very loose alliance, coming together as and when required. They had no charter or rules. I have no idea of the motivations behind the production of this book, but perhaps they just wanted another team book and used characters not serving in the Avengers.
The Defenders didn't feel like a cash cow. Just my view, of course. And Dr. Strange, Hulk, Namor and Silver Surfer were and are all strong characters.
That brings me to the Champions. What follows are opinions and guesswork.
For starters, it seems like the perception at the time was that this was an inferior group. One reason for that was, and many comic professionals have said this, that it almost seemed like someone had said, "These characters are so lame, that they couldn't even get a spot on the Defenders." That wasn't true - who could call Hercules or Ghost Rider lame? - but perception is a lot different to reality.
It felt third-tier. I am told that some at the time were saying things like, "We need a new super-team. Who's left?" To use a sports analogy, it'd be like a new football team being set up and taking on all the players that talent scouts had not bothered to pick. Even if those players had talents, people, human nature being what it is, were bound to look and say, "So we're left with people who no other team wanted?"
It's sad, but that is the way the cookie crumbles. Hercules and Ghost Rider - perhaps Iceman, too - should have made people wake up and take notice, but from comic fans I've chatted to over time, many have said that if these characters were any good, they'd have been in either the Defenders or the Avengers. Many have asked why they weren't. Again, that is unfair - Hercules did join the Avengers years later - but one cannot get past perceptions at times.
What else led to it not being a success?
Someone told me that the creative team couldn't use certain villains. Pluto was the villain in the first issue (gosh, typing that makes me think of Pluto the dog!). Other villains included Swarm, Warlord Kaa and Kamo Tharnn. With all due respect to those villains, does anyone rush out to buy books featuring them? I know a title has to come up with its own identity, but I'd have rather read stories featuring the Champions battling the likes of Juggernaut, Abomination, Magneto, etc.
The Defenders had a chance because of their non-team status. Their unique selling point was also the fact that they were loners brought together usually to fight mystical threats. That distinguished themselves from the Avengers. Other than the odd mix of characters in The Champions, what was their unique selling point? Their West Coast location? Perhaps, but that wasn't enough in and of itself. Whatever joy I had reading about them, it doesn't escape the fact that it was a mishmash of ideas featuring slightly less popular characters and prone to eliciting negative reactions from folk who perceived it all as second-rate.
I'd appreciate all thoughts, but particularly from anyone alive when the series was published. And does anyone have any insight into the creative process that led to the book?
