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Post by DubipR on Jun 12, 2019 7:32:14 GMT -5
Sovereign Seven is way up there. At the time, I thought, "Hey, Claremont with his own characters!" Well, turns out, like Byrne, he is better at playing in someone else's sandbox than creating his own. Hos Aleins vs Predator and Star Trek works were far better. He was right back writing X-Men after this crashed and burned. Millennium is another. Nice concept, lousy execution, with only the Suicide Squad portion and the Secret Origins issue working, for me. I was happy to see Mark Shaw revived, to reclaim the Manhunter name; but, that was about it. The Manhunter series is another...     The first 4 issues are pure gold. Mark Shaw is back as Manhunter and he is a bounty hunter of super-villains. It was fast paced, it had a sense of humor and a really cool villain. Shaw has to go on the run in Tokyo; it was fantastic. most exciting thing to come along in a while. it wasn't Archie Goodwin; but, Ostrander and Rice were a good team. Then, Ostrander seemed to want to focus more on mark and his family, rather than the adventure stuff. At first I hoped he was just character building; but, it didn't let up. Then, he was interrupted by Invasion. Doug Rice got bored with things and left the book. We got Grant Miehn, who was a decent, though less spectacular artist (and who had followed Chris Warner on Dark Horse's The American). It just kind of dragged. Ostrander brought back Dumas; but, it was too late and Miehn couldn't give life to it (and had a bad redesign, since he couldn't handle Rice's costume design). I had ideas for the series, like having Shaw run into Christine St Clair, who is hunting new sightings of Paul Kirk, have it revealed that this other Manhunter is a clone, when Shaw and his Southern Cross Salvage friends find the Council's old base (in the Australian desert) and a sleeping Paul Kirk (who made it to a stasis chamber and healed from the radiation poisoning at the end of Goodwin's series (and the explosion was shown rising upwards, in that series, away from where Kirk was, so he could have survived). Then, they would defeat the clone and Kirk would take over the series, with Shaw acting as support, along with Christine and Shaw's police dispatcher girlfriend. Ah, well. Ostrander was doing a great job on Suicide Squad; but, it wasn't working here, though wife Kim Yale got to write a few nice stories, on her own, as well as collaborate. It wasn't bad; just not what we saw in the series debut and what we had been promised. At to that just about every revival of the 4th World or the Eternals, by anyone except Kirby (apart from the Englehart/Rogers Mister Miracle and Don Newton's art, on the early Return of the New Gods issues). Dark Knight II is close. I didn't think lightning would strike twice; but, I didn't think it would be that bad. Made me very suspicious of new Miller projects, which saved me from All-Star Batman. Morrison has never wowed me enough to be disappointed. I always found his work uneven, so I was more happy to locate the projects that clicked with me than the ones that didn't. I could usually tell that at a glance and save my money. James Robinson, after Archie Goodwin's death and his personal demons (and Hollywood failure) was a different story. I almost universally loved his work prior to Starman and devoured it and associated stuff. Something happened when Archie died. It was like Robinson lost his father and his way and never quite recovered it. From one Manhunter series to another....  Fresh from Zero Hour, this Manhunter limited series was terrible and really had nothing to do with the original Manhunter or its previous incarnations. Terrible Steven Grant scripts and awful artwork... the cover speaks volumes on how bad it looks. |
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Post by MDG on Jun 12, 2019 8:49:41 GMT -5
I liked Staton's work before Millennium much better. It had a looser vitality that brought a dynamic feel to his stories and an enthusiasm to the stories. The more refined it got, the more it seemed to lose that quality. I also still feel that Bob Layton was his best inker. That said, I still liked his work; just not as much of the writing on the stories he did. It was nice to see him on The Huntress again, even if it wasn't Helena Wayne; but, Paul Levitz wasn't writing it. I also think the more serious tone of a lot of what he was working on went against his strengths. Even the horror stuff he did at Charlton had more of a tongue in cheek quality that worked really well and he still managed to be scary, while being fun. His work on the First Comics E-Man still had that loose vitality; but, DC seemed to squeeze it out of him, for a time. He's a favorite, though, and I have a captain Marvel (the real one) on my wall, that he sketched for me, in 1991. I would have loved to have seen him on that character.
Completely agree with Bob Layton as his best inker. I liked his work on All Star Comics.
Well, the best ink job I've ever seen on Joe Staton (though I don't remember where) was Hilary Barta. Second best, probably himself. Then Bob Smith and Bruce Patterson. Patterson, especially had a real affinity.
I don't think his style was a natural fit for what was expected in superhero comics in the bronze age. It worked much batter with things like "animation" Batman and Scooby Doo. (Seeing how well he worked with Giffen's "new" style in the 80s, I wonder what Bob Oksner inks on Staton would've looked like.)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2019 10:27:14 GMT -5
This is my choice:  It was simply the Fantastic Four sent to 2099. It felt redundant. I was a big advocate of Marvel 2099. I like the twists on existing characters (even the Punisher did a thing or two differently). I like the digital origins of Ghost Rider 2099. I'd have been enthusiastic about a *new* FF in 2099, but sending the originals to 2099 felt, as I stated, redundant. Couldn't these adventures have taken place in the regular FF book or a trade? |
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Post by codystarbuck on Jun 12, 2019 10:58:35 GMT -5
Completely agree with Bob Layton as his best inker. I liked his work on All Star Comics.
Well, the best ink job I've ever seen on Joe Staton (though I don't remember where) was Hilary Barta. Second best, probably himself. Then Bob Smith and Bruce Patterson. Patterson, especially had a real affinity.
I don't think his style was a natural fit for what was expected in superhero comics in the bronze age. It worked much batter with things like "animation" Batman and Scooby Doo. (Seeing how well he worked with Giffen's "new" style in the 80s, I wonder what Bob Oksner inks on Staton would've looked like.)
Well, I would say that depends on your definition of the Bronze Age. I thought his stuff when he first came to DC was terrific: All-Star, the Batman stuff, the Huntress solo stories, etc. His stuff at First was fine. When he came back to DC for Millennium and Green Lantern, I would say he wasn't a fit for what was passing for superhero stories of the time. Of course, I've always stuck with 1980/81 being the dividing line between the Bronze Age and the Modern Age (maybe 82). |
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Post by mikelmidnight on Jun 12, 2019 11:46:36 GMT -5
That's actually a good point. Yes, that wasn't bad. Everything else, duh. Just go onto Wikipedia, take some obscure element of Batman's mythology, bring it back in some bastardized, "ironic" way and YOU can be Grant Morrison (don't forget to pretend to geeky-love and homaging that stuff). Lord Death Man, The Batmen of Many Nations, whatever, has he left anything alone? He didn't bring back these guys, did he?  They may be the only Silver Age characters left that no one has alluded to, resurrected, retconned, or otherwise ruined.
Hey, I actually liked Morrison's take on the Batmen of Many Nations!
I'm also a fan of the Bat Squad (and included them in a fanfic I wrote) and was actually rather hoping that they'd be included in Batman Inc.
My disappointment? The Wanderers. I thought the idea of a team in the Legion's future but not burdened by all their continuity would be fascinating, but in the first issue they kill the team to replace them with 90's-ish clones. I put it down and never looked back.
Also Rising Stars. I was a huge fan of JMS post-Babylon 5, but the art was too atrocious for me to get into it. I keep hoping one day the series is rereleased and redrawn.
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Post by brutalis on Jun 12, 2019 13:28:43 GMT -5
Deathlok by Joe Casey and Leonardo Manco from 1999/2000. Such hopes and it was just "yuck" so quickly.
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Post by Duragizer on Jun 12, 2019 14:02:30 GMT -5
Also Rising Stars. I was a huge fan of JMS post-Babylon 5, but the art was too atrocious for me to get into it. I keep hoping one day the series is rereleased and redrawn.
Speaking of JMS & B5....  I'm sure the writing was alright, but the muddy artwork made it impossible for me to get into it, so I'll never truly know. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Jun 12, 2019 14:23:18 GMT -5
Also Rising Stars. I was a huge fan of JMS post-Babylon 5, but the art was too atrocious for me to get into it. I keep hoping one day the series is rereleased and redrawn.
Speaking of JMS & B5.... I'm sure the writing was alright, but the muddy artwork made it impossible for me to get into it, so I'll never truly know. It was decent; but the art was kind of murky. It varied a bit across issues. The initial storyline is good, as it fills in the gaps between when Sinclair left the station, and when he reappears as he leader of the Rangers. We see him arrive on Minbar as the first Earth Alliance Ambassador to the planet, then get framed for a murder. It dealt heavily with the bad blood that existed from the war, as illustrated in the pilot and the first season episodes "Legacies." After that? Well.................they did try to fill in the back story of Sinclair and Garibaldi, on Mars, and Garibaldi's encounter with a Shadow vessel, as mentioned in the series. The best issue, though, was the final of the original run, which focused on the Psi Corps, from their point of view, predating the 5th Season episode, "The Corps is Mother, The Corps is Father." Sad thing was, Warner had not inclination to do any media tie-ins with the series. JMS had to go to the book people and DC to accomplish those deals, despite Warner. That mindset still exists at Warner and explains why the relationship between the film studios and DC has always been shaky, and why the movie franchises have had major issues. By contrast, the animation side is filled with fans, so they tend to work together better. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jun 12, 2019 22:29:36 GMT -5
This is my choice: It was simply the Fantastic Four sent to 2099. It felt redundant. I was a big advocate of Marvel 2099. I like the twists on existing characters (even the Punisher did a thing or two differently). I like the digital origins of Ghost Rider 2099. I'd have been enthusiastic about a *new* FF in 2099, but sending the originals to 2099 felt, as I stated, redundant. Couldn't these adventures have taken place in the regular FF book or a trade? I think I might pick this as well... it basically ruined 2099. I didn't want to see the existing MU characters in the future, I wanted to see NEW characters... Ravage. Metalscream. Miguel O'Hara. Halloween Jack. The FF were just fine in the regular MU. This is pretty much what Marvel does with all their alternate futures though, they squish them most popular bits into the mainstream universe and dump the rest. A close 2nd would be the War Machine series where he got the weird space armor. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2019 23:42:36 GMT -5
This is my choice: It was simply the Fantastic Four sent to 2099. It felt redundant. I was a big advocate of Marvel 2099. I like the twists on existing characters (even the Punisher did a thing or two differently). I like the digital origins of Ghost Rider 2099. I'd have been enthusiastic about a *new* FF in 2099, but sending the originals to 2099 felt, as I stated, redundant. Couldn't these adventures have taken place in the regular FF book or a trade? I think I might pick this as well... it basically ruined 2099. I didn't want to see the existing MU characters in the future, I wanted to see NEW characters... Ravage. Metalscream. Miguel O'Hara. Halloween Jack. The FF were just fine in the regular MU. This is pretty much what Marvel does with all their alternate futures though, they squish them most popular bits into the mainstream universe and dump the rest. A close 2nd would be the War Machine series where he got the weird space armor. And yet Doom 2099, with what was purported to be the Doom of the main continuity in that era, was one of the better sellers of the imprint and one of the most critically acclaimed and fan acclaimed series of the bunch. -M |
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Post by hondobrode on Jun 13, 2019 0:21:19 GMT -5
Gotta say, I'm a huge Doom fan, and got the entire Doom 2099 series. Don't have any of the rest.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2019 3:36:25 GMT -5
Was it ever conclusively stated that Doom 2099 was "our" Doom? Didn't they imply that future Doom may have simply thought he was "our" Doom?
Did they provide an answer one way or the other?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2019 3:39:59 GMT -5
Was it ever conclusively stated that Doom 2099 was "our" Doom? Didn't they imply that future Doom may have simply thought he was "our" Doom? Did they provide an answer one way or the other? I don't know, I bailed on the 2099 books after their first year or so, but the possibility it was "our" Doom is what brought a lot of people to the table (contrary to what some posted here saying they didn't want mainline Marvel Heroes in the 2099 books). -M |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2019 5:11:17 GMT -5
For me, Doom is awesome, but I wouldn't have minded whether it was the original or an impostor.
I didn't want anything other than new concepts in 2099. I quite liked Spider-Man, Punisher, Hulk, X-Men, and Ghost Rider. So for the Fantastic Four, I'd have loved to have seen, for instance, someone finding Reed Richard's journals or seeing a new twist on the cosmic ray origin. Fantastic Four 2099 simply felt like a cash cow.
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Jun 13, 2019 9:20:47 GMT -5
For me, Doom is awesome, but I wouldn't have minded whether it was the original or an impostor. I didn't want anything other than new concepts in 2099. I quite liked Spider-Man, Punisher, Hulk, X-Men, and Ghost Rider. So for the Fantastic Four, I'd have loved to have seen, for instance, someone finding Reed Richard's journals or seeing a new twist on the cosmic ray origin. Fantastic Four 2099 simply felt like a cash cow. As a huge 2099 fan, I agree with you on FF and liking the new takes on characters in 2099 universe. I own like maybe 50 comics with Punisher in the title and 35 of those are Punisher 2099. And that's because he wasn't just Frank Castle somehow in the 2099 universe. He was his own character. |
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