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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2019 15:39:41 GMT -5
Sadly, I think that's the business model most editors follow. The original X-Men were my X-Men ... Morrison tried his best, but the original still stands supreme! |
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Post by kirby101 on Jun 30, 2019 20:46:41 GMT -5
Are you talking about Giant Size and forward. Because the early book, at least until Steranko and Adams got there, were pretty weak. I mean Kirby inked by Reinman or Werner Roth, Ugh! But Claremont, Cockrum and Byrne, hell yes!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2019 18:04:39 GMT -5
Are you talking about Giant Size and forward. Because the early book, at least until Steranko and Adams got there, were pretty weak. I mean Kirby inked by Reinman or Werner Roth, Ugh! But Claremont, Cockrum and Byrne, hell yes!
I liked Kirby, inked by Reinman and/or Roth for it's uniqueness and charm. I just find the Claremont, Cockrum, and Byrne ... fabulous, but it's didn't had that charm that I liked. I'm one of those people that liked the original the best and not everyone sees it that way, but I do see the joy of Kirby and Company. I'm not talking about the Giant Size and forward at all ... Claremont made it powerful, dynamic, and awe inspiring ... and in most cases and books it's gets a bit tiresome for me. I hope you'll understand that. |
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Post by kirby101 on Jul 1, 2019 19:00:22 GMT -5
Mecha, you have every right to like whatyou like.
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Post by Duragizer on Jul 1, 2019 22:03:17 GMT -5
I like the classic X-Men, too. Most of the stuff between the "death" of Professor X and the arrival of Neal Adams is a directionless mess, but I like those characters just the same.
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Post by codystarbuck on Jul 2, 2019 16:08:56 GMT -5
I was just reminded of this one, from 20 years ago...       Really sounded great on paper: bob Layton and Dick Giordano doing the Charlton Action heroes, as a group. Who better, than a couple of Charlton stalwarts; one the man who oversaw the greatness of the originals, the other one of the young talents that emerged from later Charlton. And it was.....okay? It brings everyone together; but, the story just doesn't seem to rise to the potential. There is a mystery, whose resolution is..............interesting? I don't know; I had really high expectations and was rather blase with the first issue and never really rose much above that. DC had already screwed the pooch with Peter Cannon, which reverted back to Pete Morisi, and Captain Atom had already been damaged by the Armageddon 2001 mini, when they changed the villain. Also, his redesign wasn't that awesome. Question was moved back into Ditko territory, after Denny O'Neil took him into more interesting territory. Beetle was fine, didn't care for Nightshade (who DC never handled particularly well, though she added a bit to early Suicide Squad) or Peacemaker (who got an armor redesign; but, wasn't that hot in the original form, other than Pat Boyette art). At least we finally got Judomaster and Tiger, of a sort, after DC had pretty much ignored them, since they bought the characters. DC was originally going to do a CAH anthology, Comics Cavalcade Weekly, with the Action Heroes, then pulled the plug...  Instead, Blue Beetle got a series, soon followed by Captain Atom and the Question. Nightshade got put in Suicide Squad, Sarge Steel became a government rep to superheroes, Peacemaker got a mini and an appearance in The Vigilante, and Peter Cannon, eventually, got a short-lived series (well after it was supposed to appear). Judomaster was supposed to get a Secret Origins tale, but it was yanked and had a story prepared for CCW, which never saw the light of day. He got an appearance in the DC Challenge, as did Son of Vulcan, and History of the DC Universe. Beetle, Captain Atom and the Question (all Ditko creations) had a decent run at 80s and early 90s DC, then fell on harder times. Not much has drastically improved since, with DC moving away from the originals to new versions. |
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Post by MDG on Jul 3, 2019 8:42:06 GMT -5
DC was originally going to do a CAH anthology, Comics Cavalcade Weekly, with the Action Heroes, then pulled the plug... Wow, it's really jarring seeing Superman on that cover. Was he really still that big a draw on '84? (Especially among people who'd pick up a book with a bunch of basically unknown characters?) |
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Post by DubipR on Jul 3, 2019 9:27:23 GMT -5
Howard Chaykin's Challengers of the Unknown mini-series.  I love Chaykin; love his art and writing but man this was a hard one to get down. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Jul 3, 2019 9:47:14 GMT -5
DC was originally going to do a CAH anthology, Comics Cavalcade Weekly, with the Action Heroes, then pulled the plug... Wow, it's really jarring seeing Superman on that cover. Was he really still that big a draw on '84? (Especially among people who'd pick up a book with a bunch of basically unknown characters?) Not especially, though the book was supposed to reprint the Superman newspaper strip, which was still going, in 1983, when the proposal was developed. Neal Pozner and Robert Greenberger were heavily involved with it, with it being Giordano's baby. The idea was to have a mix of DC and Charlton characters and also veteran and rookie talent. the initial features were set to be: Blue Beetle-by Steve Englehart, Dave Ross and Alex Nino. Beetle was supposed to be married, in the strip Judomaster-with creator Frank mcLaughlin, who penned a story of a cybernetic survivor of Hiroshima, hunting Judomaster for revenge. McLaughlin also drew a Secret Origins story that went unpublished. Peter Cannon, the Thunderbolt-from creator Pete morisi. Morisi had completed an entire story and a Secret Origins tale that was never published. Morisi owned Peter Cannon and licensed it to DC; but, this project and subsequent events made for a mixed relationship with DC (apart from Giordano) Peacemaker-Kieth Giffen plotting and drawing, with Robert Loren Fleming scripting and Gary Martin inking. Giffen also completed an unreleased story, which involved the idea of Christopher Smith hearing voices from the helmet. Paul Kupperberg used this idea in his later Peacemaker mini-series. Captain Atom-Paul Kupperberg and Paul Chadwick. Nathaniel Adam would be a space shuttle astronaut who gets caught in a STAR Labs particle accelerator and gains his nuclear powers, then continues working with STAR Labs. Chadwick couldn't meet the pace and was replaced by Denys Cowan. The Question-Mike Barr, Stan Woch and Rick Magyar. Sarge Steel-Andrew Hefler, Trevor Von Eden and Dick Giordano (who only had time for inking). The DC marketing department was pretty much against the project and fought it all the way, until it was canceled. You can see some of the pages here, via the links on the blog. I hated the Kupperberg Peacemaker mini (especially after shelling out the money to buy it) and the Giffen series sounds just as bad. Would have loved to see a complete Chadwick Captain Atom story, though, again, Kupperberg is a dealbreaker, for me. Barr and Woch are an interesting team for The Question. Pete Morisi doing Thunderbolt was always gold. Sarge Steel would have been nice, just to see him in an active role, rather than a government bureaucrat, which is how he mostly ended up being used. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Jul 3, 2019 10:25:32 GMT -5
Howard Chaykin's Challengers of the Unknown mini-series. I love Chaykin; love his art and writing but man this was a hard one to get down. Wait, what is Reuben Flagg doing there? Or is that he hero of Time2? The Shadow? Blackhawk? Barnett Pasternak (Midnight Men)? Cass pollack (Black Kiss)? |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jul 3, 2019 10:45:29 GMT -5
Howard Chaykin's Challengers of the Unknown mini-series. I love Chaykin; love his art and writing but man this was a hard one to get down. Wait, what is Reuben Flagg doing there? Or is that he hero of Time2? The Shadow? Blackhawk? Barnett Pasternak (Midnight Men)? Cass pollack (Black Kiss)? The Eternal (Chaykin) Champion. |
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Post by mikelmidnight on Jul 3, 2019 11:31:21 GMT -5
I hated the Kupperberg Peacemaker mini (especially after shelling out the money to buy it) and the Giffen series sounds just as bad. Would have loved to see a complete Chadwick Captain Atom story, though, again, Kupperberg is a dealbreaker, for me. Barr and Woch are an interesting team for The Question. Pete Morisi doing Thunderbolt was always gold. Sarge Steel would have been nice, just to see him in an active role, rather than a government bureaucrat, which is how he mostly ended up being used.
I think this was a stellar lineup of creators, and very appropriate for the characters (Giffen's idea isn't how I'd have chosen to do the story but I think he'd make a good match otherwise).
However, in my opinion, this series would have tanked - mainly because each strip was only going to get two pages or so. There would have been no room for the characters to step out, no development, plus aside from Sarge Steel being a spy and Judomaster being set in the 40s, an anthology that consisted of a handful of second and third tier superheroes would have offered no variety.
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Post by hondobrode on Jul 3, 2019 23:57:19 GMT -5
Howard Chaykin's Challengers of the Unknown mini-series. I love Chaykin; love his art and writing but man this was a hard one to get down.
Sorry you felt that way.
I like the idea of the Challengers but haven't been too impressed with how they were done, until Chaykin.
I couldn't wait between issues for this.
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Post by tingramretro on Jul 5, 2019 5:03:36 GMT -5
Are you talking about Giant Size and forward. Because the early book, at least until Steranko and Adams got there, were pretty weak. I mean Kirby inked by Reinman or Werner Roth, Ugh! But Claremont, Cockrum and Byrne, hell yes!
Sorry, don't agree. I loved the original X-Men stories, and the Adams issues are among the best material Marvel ever published. |
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Post by tingramretro on Jul 5, 2019 5:08:17 GMT -5
I was just reminded of this one, from 20 years ago... Really sounded great on paper: bob Layton and Dick Giordano doing the Charlton Action heroes, as a group. Who better, than a couple of Charlton stalwarts; one the man who oversaw the greatness of the originals, the other one of the young talents that emerged from later Charlton. And it was.....okay? It brings everyone together; but, the story just doesn't seem to rise to the potential. There is a mystery, whose resolution is..............interesting? I don't know; I had really high expectations and was rather blase with the first issue and never really rose much above that. DC had already screwed the pooch with Peter Cannon, which reverted back to Pete Morisi, and Captain Atom had already been damaged by the Armageddon 2001 mini, when they changed the villain. Also, his redesign wasn't that awesome. Question was moved back into Ditko territory, after Denny O'Neil took him into more interesting territory. Beetle was fine, didn't care for Nightshade (who DC never handled particularly well, though she added a bit to early Suicide Squad) or Peacemaker (who got an armor redesign; but, wasn't that hot in the original form, other than Pat Boyette art). At least we finally got Judomaster and Tiger, of a sort, after DC had pretty much ignored them, since they bought the characters. DC was originally going to do a CAH anthology, Comics Cavalcade Weekly, with the Action Heroes, then pulled the plug... Instead, Blue Beetle got a series, soon followed by Captain Atom and the Question. Nightshade got put in Suicide Squad, Sarge Steel became a government rep to superheroes, Peacemaker got a mini and an appearance in The Vigilante, and Peter Cannon, eventually, got a short-lived series (well after it was supposed to appear). Judomaster was supposed to get a Secret Origins tale, but it was yanked and had a story prepared for CCW, which never saw the light of day. He got an appearance in the DC Challenge, as did Son of Vulcan, and History of the DC Universe. Beetle, Captain Atom and the Question (all Ditko creations) had a decent run at 80s and early 90s DC, then fell on harder times. Not much has drastically improved since, with DC moving away from the originals to new versions. Well, both the Ted Kord Blue Beetle and the original Question now seem to be back... |
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