Um.......yeah.........

Slight problem; Top Gun was 34 years before this, with Maverick as a lieutenant, which means he had about 3-4 years, minimum, in the Navy. 20 years is retirement. 30 years is pretty much mandatory, for anyone outside of an admiral. His flight jacket said Captain; He'd have been retired after he was passed over for admiral.

I'm sure Navy recruiting is wetting themselves over this, like they did the original. Complete BS fantasy.

This was the only thing to show the real Navy...



We used to laugh at the original film, in the real Navy.

Piece of trivia; in 1986, the story went around that during filming on the USS Enterprise, Tom Cruise was kicked out of the wardroom for wearing a flight jacket and that he wasn't particularly well liked. He definitely wasn't among the Search & Rescue Divers who worked on the scenes where Maverick's plane goes down, killing Goose. In one take, his parachute started dragging him under the water, despite his floatation vest and the divers had to get him out, for real. One of them remarked to my midshipman group (we were in San Diego, in the summer of 1986, when the film came out)that they should have let him drown, as he was such an a-hole.

NAS Miramar still had an F-14 mocked up with Iceman on the side of the cockpit, from filming. The Officer's Club scene was a relatively accurate depiction of Wednesday nights, when it was Ladies' Night and civilian women were allowed on base to socialize at the O Club. They were hunting for officers and, especially pilots, much as you see in the vastly more accurate An Officer and a Gentlemen (which the Navy refused cooperation with the production). Ladies' Night would be different nights of the week for the various O Clubs in the San Diego area (NAS Miramar, Naval Station San Diego, NAS North Island, Naval Amphibious Base Coronado and Marine Corps Recruit Depot San Diego). You'd see the same women at each one (believe me, we midshipman hit them all).

Navy recruitment jumped 500%, with the original, with most idiots soon learning that the enlisted don't get to fly aircraft; at best they get to ride in the back of a helo or P-3 Orion. Never believe Hollywood!

Basically, they waited about 20 years too long to do a sequel; but, that's Hollywood.  Fat old men win over the beautiful young woman, a120 lb woman can kick the butts of half dozen 240 lb men (at once) without weapons, lawyers can rant and rave in court without getting censured by the judge, the military always blindly follows stupid orders and secret agents are well known to their enemies.


If you compare An Officer and a Gentleman to Top Gun, the former is a heightened reality and the latter is fantasy.  Between Zack Mayo and Pete Mitchell, Mayo would be the one to make captain, while Mitchell would have probably been grounded well before the chance of Fighter Weapon School (the actual name of "Top Gun") would have ever have come up.  Officer was about leadership and comradery and real love, while Top Gun is about pretty boys in high tech planes, partying and having sex.


The flying scenes were great in Top Gun and it's an engaging film; but the story is a bit hard to swallow.  It also killed noted pilot Art Scholl, who was doing aerial photography and deliberately put his plane into a flat spin to film the pilot POV for when Maverick goes down.  He couldn't pull out of it. 

The film was originally to feature Maverick involved with an enlisted woman, which the Navy demanded be changed (that would be fraternization and he would be court martialed).  it was claimed that the role was written for Tom Cruise, yet Matthew Modine turned down the role because of its politics.  There was to be a crash scene on the flight deck of an aircraft carrier that the Navy forced to be removed so as not to look like a place where bad accidents happen (ignoring the USS Forrestal fire during Vietnam, a bad crash in the late 70s/early 80s that exposed drug use in the Navy, and the USS Iowa incident 3 years later).

We all went to see the film and everyone enjoyed it; but, it was a gung ho comedy to us.  That still didn't stop every nitwit from trying to do the Righteous Brothers bit at the O Club.  Thankfully, that died out after the film was out of theaters.

The Navy had recruiters set up in theater lobbies and they had plenty of marks....I mean applicants.  They did the same thing with The Hunt for Red October, though it wasn't quite as sexy and the result wasn't nearly the same.  It's one thing to swoop around in jets and romance hot babes; it's another to be trapped in a sardine can, with a nuclear reactor behind you and someone shooting torpedoes at you.

The rationale, basically, has to do with the complexity of flight training, especially modern aircraft.  You need a great deal of education to understand the physics and the engineering of modern aircraft, which required a lot of schooling.  That level of education usually led to an officer's commission, regardless of specialty.  For aircraft, it is essential.  After WW1, aircraft transcended just knowing how to coordinate stick and rudder; you had aerodynamics, developing avionics systems, more complex engines and much higher speeds.

However, there were enlisted pilots, in WW2.  Chuck Yeager was initially an enlisted mechanic, in the US Army Air Force and qualified for flight training, despite a lack of education, due to need, especially sharp vision (20/10) and a natural aptitude.  Upon completion of training, he was promoted to Flight Officer, which carried a warrant officer rank.  As he progressed in skill, he was promoted up the ranks.  However, his lack of education was one of the reasons he was not selected for the mercury program, despite being the most accomplished test pilot in the US; and, possibly, the world.  The British had a similar program, due to the pressing need of pilots.

There is some info here, about the USAAF program, in WW2.

Enlisted personnel have served as gunners, radio men, crew chiefs, sonar operators and Search & Rescue.  With the advent of helicopters, many enlisted qualified for flight training and were promoted to warrant officer rank.  However, due to military commitments around the globe, there are experiments ongoing with opening flight training to enlisted personnel with associate or equivalent degrees.

As for military lawyers, I can only speak from experience about the Navy and Marine Corps, though I believe the Army and Air Force were similar.  The Navy had two types of officer career paths; "unrestricted line" and "restricted line".  Unrestricted meant you were training and gaining experience towards one day commanding a naval vessel.  In a combat situation, if you were the senior officer present, you became the de facto captain of the vessel.  So if the Commanding and Executive Officers had been killed, the next senior officer would assume command.  In the Restricted Line, you were trained as a specialist, in a complex field.  Promotion would come within that field, moving towards commanding an organization within that field.  For instance, I was a Supply Corps Officer, which was restricted line.  I could never have commanded a naval vessel, but, I could have led a department, then a supply detachment at a shore command and could ultimately command a Naval Supply Center or something like the US Navy Supply Corps School.

In the US Navy, the lawyers were part of the Judge Advocate General's Corps.  They would rise to be military judges and command a JAG command on a base, such as Naval Station San Diego, or a JAG billet at the Pentagon.  Their job was to provide legal counsel and perform legal duties within the Navy, representing Naval interests in legal disputes, defending the rights of an accused sailor, prosecuting an accused sailor, and presiding as the judge.  They provide legal counsel to Naval personnel.  They hold rank and authority that goes with that rank; but, they could not command a ship.  If every officer was killed on board, leaving only a JAG officer, or a Supply Corps Officer, they could only have administrative command.  Actual command of the ship would fall to the senior Surface Warfare-qualified enlisted NCO (probably the Command Master Chief).

The Marine Corps was a bit different.  All Marine Officers train as infantry officers, first, at The Basic School; then, they go off to their career specialty.  Marine JAG officers would still go through the Basic School course, before being sent on, as I understand it (may be off base, there).

The JAG tv series was all kinds of Hollywood BS, so ignore what you see there, despite having Navy advisors and US Navy script approval.

Not sure about other militaries; but, I think it tends to work on similar principles.

A Few Good Men is Hollywood stuff.  However, Aron Sorkin wrote the original play based on conversations with his sister, who served in the Navy JAG Corps.  I don't know how much cooperation the Marine Corps provided to the production.

Generally speaking, to get US department of Defense and a particular branch's cooperation, you have to submit your script for approval and be willing to cede a lot of control to military considerations.  Thus, most films in which the military gave extensive support feature the military in a glowing light.  For lesser productions, it may amount to little more than allowing limited background filming at a military base.  For instance, the film Navy SEALS, with Michael Biehn and Charlie Sheen did not gain US Navy cooperation, due to displeasure over Sheen's character and some other script elements.  They allowed a couple of days' filming at the Norfolk naval station and little more.  The carrier seen in the film was a Spanish naval vessel, as were helicopters.  The Richard Widmark and Sidney Poitier drama, The Bedford Incident, was shot on a British ship, because it featured a captain who drove his ment to the point that a twitchy junior officer inadvertently fires of a nuclear-armed torpedo at a Russian submarine.  If you look closely at a couple of scenes, you can see rifle racks, in a passageway, that have Enfield rifles stacked in them.  For the time of the film, those would have been M-14s (though the US Navy would have them stored in a firearms locker, not in gun racks in a main passageway).

An Officer and a Gentleman was from a script by a former graduate of the US Navy Air Officer Candidate School, a non-Academy or NROTC commissioning program, specifically for college graduates, to train as pilots and serve as reserve officers.  That school was at NAS Pensacola, in Florida.  Director Taylor Hackford and the writer met with the base command to secure cooperation to film at the facility; but, was denied permission when they refused to make script changes about language, Mayo's fight with Gunnery Sgt Foley, and aspects of his romantic relationship, his honors violation and Sid's suicide.  Most of that was based on fact, from the writer's experience, or heightened drama based on similar experiences.  Hackford backed the authenticity of the script and noted the language issue wasa joke, as they heard worse walking across the base to come to the meeting.  They were denied permission to film on the base and any Navy Department cooperation.  They moved the production to Washington State, where they gained access to a Washington National Guard facility, to stand in for the school.  Pensacola became Puget Sound.  The graduation scene was originally scripted to include a flyover by the Blue Angels, the Navy aerobatic performance squadron (equivalent of the Air Force Thunderbirds), which was a tradition at Pensacola.  The production secured the services of a Canadian Armed Forces demonstration team, instead.  The US Navy department, via the defense Department, placed pressure on the Canadian government (through the State Department) to withdraw cooperation and the Canadian government canceled the agreement to use their demonstration team, leading to Hackford cutting the flyover.  Despite this, the film was a box office hit and was seen as a positive portrayal (and an accurate one) of Naval officers and leadership and was embraced by the Navy, after it became a hit.  It helped boost recruitment into commissioning programs, as the Reagan Administration was expanding the role of the Navy.  When I started NROTC, the film was referenced several times by staf personnel, at our orientation.

Top Gun got extensive cooperation, to the point of even repositioning an aircraft carrier for shots, after a course correction to head into the wind.  The production paid $25,000 to have the ship steam back to their old course, to have the setting sun in position (covering fuel costs and other things not covered by their operational budget, as part of the filming agreement).  Tony Scott wrote the check, himself.

The cult film The Final Countdown also got extensive cooperation, including filming on the USS Nimitz and aerial photography for dogfight sequences.  The film came out in the beginning of the Reagan expansion and the Navy was hungry for the publicity.  prior to that, their biggest film was Midway, which made use of Naval facilities and shots on board carriers, plus use of stock footage from other films and newsreels.  The film opens with footage from 30 Seconds over Tokyo, as the Doolittle Raid on the Japanese Home Islands opens the story, leading to Japanese military operations in the Aleutians and the attack on Midway Island, leading to the decisive carrier battle.  It also has footage from Battle of Britain and Messerschmitts can be seen in a couple of dogfight shots.

Getting back to the original question, commissioning programs train midshipmen and officer candidates in Naval protocols and traditions and give them an overview of Navy weapons and systems; but, mostly an introduction.  The US Naval Academy and NROTC programs give far more extensive training, since they are training active duty, unrestricted line officers.  Most restricted line officers come through officer candidate commissioning programs.  They are given reserve officer commission, while NROTC and Academy commissions are active duty commissions.  reserve commissions usually mean a limited active duty period, then reverting to the reserve ranks, training monthly and then one months active duty per year, for a period of years.  About the only Academy and NROTC allowed to go into these programs, traditionally, were those who had been injured in athletics, who could not fulfill unrestricted line officer requirements.  For instance, one of my instructors was an Academy grad who injured a knee.  My class and the peer class at the Academy had the opportunity to join the Supply Corps, due to undermaning.  However, the bulk of the Academy officers were women, who were barred from serving on combatant vessels, during that time period (which has long since changed and started as I was leaving the Navy).

Cody, THANK YOU so much for that! I found that very, very interesting.

My knowledge of the military is limited. My dad was in the Royal Artillery. My grandfathers served during WWII. Two of my uncles served in infantry positions during the Cold War in places like Northern Ireland and Germany. I didn't actually have many conversations with them about their careers, just bits and pieces here and there.

I try and take fiction with a pinch of salt. For example, A Few Good Men is a very good and engaging film, but the lack of NCOs in the movie is distracting. It tells the story it needs to tell, but it seems like Colonel Jessup, Lt. Colonel Markinson and Lt. Kendrick are the only ones running that base in Cuba. Someone I know, who did serve in the military, even said to me, "Where were the NCOs in that film?" But I guess they were telling the story they needed to. But perhaps Kiefer Sutherland's character, Lt. Kendrick, could have been an NCO.

I took a lot from JAG with a huge pinch of salt. A barrel of salt, in fact. The very concept of this naval lawyer hopping off on action missions meant my suspension of disbelief mode was in fifth gear!

Regarding the Army Air Corps I mentioned earlier (founded in 1942), my terminology was clumsy in my other post. I know NCOs can become pilots in the Army Air Corps. I don't think enlisted ranks can. But I know many are pleased that it's one branch of the military where you don't have to be an officer to fly.

I think, if they are going to go with the fantasy that Maverick hasn't been forcibly retired after 30+ years in the Navy, then the admiral he reports to should be Zack Mayo.

I have a different problem with Top Gun: Maverick. Different people have various standards for when they can separate the art from the artist. When do you think a star is too "problematic" to support? I usually separate my opinion of an entertainer from his/her works, but Tom Cruise is an exception. I've heard that a huge part of Scientology's budget is funded by Cruise. I think it hurts people, so I choose not to give him my money.

I've had an informal boycott of Tom Cruise films for years. The most recent Tom Cruise movie I've seen in a theater is Minority Report, although I have seen one more recent film (Tropic Thunder, in which he has a small role) on DVD. I have seen watched a few older Tom Cruise movies since then as well. I don't know if that benefits him financially, but it's just sort of an informal boycott.