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Post by codystarbuck on Jan 2, 2020 17:46:00 GMT -5
I'm not a Cruise "fan;" but, I have gone to a few of his movies and really enjoyed some and was okay with others. He has talent beyond the pretty boy looks and smart ass delivery. I don't like the Scientology thing; but, it's not a factor in movies I see or not.
For practical reasons, I don't go to theaters to see movies. My wife has a debilitating back problem and can't sit in them and I hate modern theaters, anyway. So, it is home video/streaming. I haven't paid to watch Cruise in years; so, I'm not passing on anything to Scientology directly.
I enjoyed Top Gun in the day, with a twinkle in my eye to the fantasy. It was something you learned to accept from Hollywood. Something like An Officer and a Gentleman was a very rare thing. Even Full Metal Jacket, with R Lee Ermey, and Platoon, had their fair share of fantasy vs history. Same with We Were Soldiers Once. People had agendas, vs telling the truth of things. Vietnam is one where objectivity isn't very achievable.
These days, though, this just strikes me as more of Hollywood's creative void, to steal from Dave Sim (minus the misogyny). Everyone is scared of concepts and scripts that aren't pre-sold to proven demographics or that don't have tons of "market research" behind them. So, we just recycle ad nauseum. I have a feeling even the MCU fans are in for a rough time, as we will probably see that stuff go into recycle mode pretty soon.
The music in Top Gun was a big factor in the experience of watching it, as it was a very MTV-friendly film, from a guy who did commercials and had one feature film under his belt. If you wanted art, you went to his older brother's films (well, some of them). He mixed music well and had an eye for exciting visuals, even if he wasn't a great storyteller or director of performances. He did have good casts. It was a video jukebox of a film.
I don't see anything here to even give me that level of involvement.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2020 9:31:27 GMT -5
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,864
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Post by shaxper on Sept 20, 2020 10:13:49 GMT -5
I always thought that the original was utter rubbish. So, no...I'm not excited by this or likely to go to see it. That's always been my impression as well, which is why I've never seen the thing. I don't like Cruise at the best of times and Top Gun always looked like one of his most characteristic, and therefore annoying, performances, so I've made a point of avoiding it, as I have many others of Cruise's biggest hits (e.g. Rain Man). Tom Cruise always plays...Tom Cruise. Take him or leave him, I guess. I like his persona well enough, but not enough to actively seek it out. I think Jerry McGuire was the quintessential Tom Cruise film, and the rest are optional. I've never seen Top Gun and feel like I probably should because it's so deeply enmeshed in the cultural canon, but I have no idea what the appeal is. Cool guys in fighter jets hitting on chicks isn't really my kind of film. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 20, 2020 11:32:44 GMT -5
We laughed our heads off at Top Gun, when it came out; but, it was the best recruiting ad the Navy ever had. You wouldn't believe how many suckers enlisted because of it, only to find out that only officers fly aircraft. Surprise! Now go chip paint.
An Officer and a Gentleman is the only realistic depiction of the military of that era. It is for two very good reasons: one, the writer had been through the Air Officer Candidate School (AOCS) and wrote what he knew; and, two, director Taylor Hackford refused to change the script to reflect the image that the Navy wanted to sell. The Navy refused co-operation and Hackford went off to make the film anyway. He did so realistically and accurately. When it was a hit, the Navy embraced it; but, they deliberately had tried to sabotage it. The graduation scene called for a flyover by the Blue Angels. The Navy refused to allow their participation in filming. Hackford got a Canadian military demonstration squadron to step in. The Department of the Navy, via the Defense Department, put pressure on the Canadian government and succeeded in them withdrawing their cooperation. So, you don't see any fighter jets fly over the scene.
That is how the Dept. of Defense turns films into recruiting posters. This, to me, is more of the same crap, from something that was already a poor fantasy to begin with. Meanwhile, as people lapped up the Reagan Era macho image and MTV Cool, my fellow midshipmen and I met people who worked on the film. Universally, Tom Cruise was despised. One of the divers at the Search and Rescue school said his parachute started dragging him under when they shot the scenes where he is in the water and they had to pull him out for real; but, said he wished they had just let him drown. You had to be a pretty big jerk for that many people not to want to say they had fun with a Hollywood star. He was young; so, hopefully he was a bit better behaved, this time around.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2020 11:56:35 GMT -5
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 20, 2020 12:06:31 GMT -5
Well, they don't like my ad blocker; so f@#$ them. What they needed to do, in 1986, was fine every idiot who started singing the Righteous Brothers in the Officer's Club. Seriously, EVERY....F-ING....NIGHT...!!!!!! The sad thing was, it was never on Ladies' Night, when there was any actual reason for it. That was the only real scene in the whole damn film, as Ladies' Night at NAS Miramar was a meat market. Lots of women hoping to land a pilot. Thing was, there were other Ladies' Nights at the O Clubs on the other surrounding bases, in the San Diego area (Miramar is just up the road) and you would see the same women at them; so, if they couldn't land a pilot, they would settle for a regular Navy or Marine officer (Marine Corps Recruit Depot was also in San Diego). We saw the same women at the naval station, Marine Corps Recruit Depot, Naval Amphibious Base Coronado (where we were quartered) and NAS Miramar (Wednesday night was Ladies' Night, there). Of course, we were there for the same reason (meeting the women, not to land a naval or Marine officer; this was before Don't Ask, Don't Tell). |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2020 12:10:05 GMT -5
I’m a Luddite, I wouldn’t even know how to block ads!
This is the pertinent part of the article, a comment from a retired commander (Cmdr. Guy "Bus" Snodgrass):
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 20, 2020 15:44:16 GMT -5
Bah...it's called Fighter Weapons School....... Damn movie. After it came out, they started producing ballcaps with the submarine warfare badge, which said BOTTOM GUN. (this is a variation, as the originals were Milspec ballcaps)  At Supply Corps School, we used to mock aviators and their habit of talking with their hands (to indicate their plane and the "enemy" plane). We were called "Chops," as in pork chop, because our insignia (a leaf with acorns) resembled the shape of a pork chop, from a distance..  We called it TOP CHOP and it usually went something like.... "So there I was, coming in at a sharp angle, with him on my Six; so, I went into a power dive and audited my DD-1155!" The punchline was always about filling out and checking requisition forms and other paperwork, as that was what we did in the Supply Corps, as we ordered and maintained repair parts and other vital supplies for the ship (Storekeeping), as well as paid the crew and provided banking services (Disbursing), fed them (Mess Services) and personal services (Ship's Services, meaning barbershop, laundry and ship's store). We knew we were the paper pushers of the Navy; but, at least we had a sense of humor about it. A certain portion of the regular Navy officers were total a-holes and the politics were ridiculous. That is why I am not retired, with a pension and health care. 4 years of that was enough. I'd have blown my brains out before 20 years of it. Trump wouldn't have made it through the first day of orientation at NROTC, if he ever served anything other than his ego (bone spors my @$$). I also crated Robochop, a hybrid man/machine supply officer, armed with a laser barcode reader and a stack of forms. Given the height of supply technology, at the time, was the "new" CD Rom versions of the parts and supply number records (usually kept on microfiche); he wasn't quite state of the art. Our storekeeping computers dated from the Vietnam era! My Ship's store computer still used a cassette back-up drive and disbursing was done with an adding machine calculator. They were introducing ATMS when I started, but they were mostly on carriers and other large ships, when I was getting out. Soon, they'd be on every ship, which is how you could draw your pay, on payday, either all of it or a portion of it. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 20, 2020 15:50:39 GMT -5
ps, here was the Supply Corps School's "official" Unofficial emblem...  Back then, the school was in Athens, Ga, just across town from the Univ of Georgia. Sadly, I was there after the glory days of REM and the B-52s being the local bands. However, we used to frequent Allen's Bar, which is across the street from the School campus, which is mentioned in the B-52s song "Deadbeat Club." The song has a lyric..."Going down to Allen's Bar, 25 cents for beer....." Allen's was a little hole in the wall place, with beer mugs kept in a freezer, to keep the beer cold, when you drank, and greasy sliders to go with it. They had a shuffleboard table in the back and a couple of pool tables. We'd have lunch there and try to get our instructors to come, fill them with free beer and get afternoon classes cancelled. Worked about 30% of the time. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2020 17:09:30 GMT -5
What are the rules about the time that needs to elapse between drinking alcohol and flying a jet?
In movies like Top Gun (and many others), there appears to be some drinking pre-flight. I presume a certain amount of time would have to elapse between your last sip of alcohol and piloting a jet on an exercise or mission?
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 20, 2020 18:36:23 GMT -5
What are the rules about the time that needs to elapse between drinking alcohol and flying a jet? In movies like Top Gun (and many others), there appears to be some drinking pre-flight. I presume a certain amount of time would have to elapse between your last sip of alcohol and piloting a jet on an exercise or mission? Alcohol is not allowed on US Navy vessels and while on duty. We could drink int he O Club or at an official function, but that was away from our duty stations/work environments. Any pilot who was caught flying with alcohol in his system would be grounded and face disciplinary action. No pilot would be touching alcohol if he was flying that day. I don't recall any scene where they were drinking before a flight. probabkly just the jump between scenes that gives that impression. The O Club scenes are after duty hours and the stuff with Goose's family is also off base. That's why we liked to have exchanges with British and other foreign Navy ships, as they usually got alcohol rations. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2020 6:10:24 GMT -5
I was also thinking about Stinger’s threat to have Maverick flying cargo planes.
Is it common/uncommon for officers, willingly or unwillingly, to be transferred from fighter jets to cargo planes? And do the Navy even operate cargo planes (I presumed only the USAF operated cargo planes)? And how much time would have to be spent on retraining an officer to fly cargo planes?
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 21, 2020 10:54:25 GMT -5
I was also thinking about Stinger’s threat to have Maverick flying cargo planes. Is it common/uncommon for officers, willingly or unwillingly, to be transferred from fighter jets to cargo planes? And do the Navy even operate cargo planes (I presumed only the USAF operated cargo planes)? And how much time would have to be spent on retraining an officer to fly cargo planes? What he is referring to is the Carrier Onboard Delivery aircraft, or COD planes; the C-2A Greyhound.  In recent years, they have been looking to replace them with either the V-22 Osprey tiltrotor or a modified S-3 Viking anti-submarine patrol aircraft (which is flown off of carriers). Tiltrotor seems to have backing, as they continue to justify the massive expenditure on that thing for the last 30 years. And, no it is not common to switch aircraft types, as too much training goes into flying a specific aircraft type. Attack pilots usually stay with attack planes and fighter pilots with fighter planes, helicopter pilots with helos, etc. They progress on to higher commands, with the aim of commanding an aircraft carrier. That is typical Hollywood BS, from bad writers who do no research and ignore everything a technical advisor tells them (which is most of them). They'd just ground him and destroy his career and he would be passed over for promotion and forced out of the Navy. You get two shots at promotion to the next rank or you are out. That is why 30 years+ in service and only captain is unlikely, despite that one link. Maverick is not Chuck Yeager and even he made Brigadier General. |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Sept 21, 2020 11:03:05 GMT -5
I was also thinking about Stinger’s threat to have Maverick flying cargo planes. Is it common/uncommon for officers, willingly or unwillingly, to be transferred from fighter jets to cargo planes? And do the Navy even operate cargo planes (I presumed only the USAF operated cargo planes)? And how much time would have to be spent on retraining an officer to fly cargo planes? What he is referring to is the Carrier Onboard Delivery aircraft, or COD planes; the C-2A Greyhound. In recent years, they have been looking to replace them with either the V-22 Osprey tiltrotor or a modified S-3 Viking anti-submarine patrol aircraft (which is flown off of carriers). Tiltrotor seems to have backing, as they continue to justify the massive expenditure on that thing for the last 30 years. I did a paper in one of my grad school classes on the V-22 Osprey. This would have been late 1991. Even then it was a text book example of government waste. Absolutely nobody outside of Boeing, Bell and Congress wanted the damn thing. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2020 11:26:58 GMT -5
Thanks for all the info, Cody!
I know we have to suspend disbelief at times. I mean, the first Columbo episode was in, what, the late 60s? And the final one aired in 2003, yet he was a lieutenant that whole time. Not only is that a long career in and of itself, but I can’t believe he wouldn’t have been given a promotion in that time.
A detective show over here (A Touch of Frost) featured a detective inspector - William Frost - who I think became the oldest TV policeman in history. By the time the final episode aired, I think the actor was 68. Real detectives over here can and do retire at 60 - or sometimes earlier.
I accept suspension of disbelief, but a lot of military shows/movies do appear to imply they are aiming for accuracy. That’s interesting that you get two shots at promotion - and then you’re out.
Do you have to go for promotion, though? Can you not choose to stay at the lowest rank for your whole career?
Incidentally, a naval show aired over here (one season) called Making Waves. The commander of the ship in that series, Commander Martin Brooke, was a helicopter pilot but he was given command of a ship. In fact, in one episode, a lieutenant commander (engineering) got sacked - but before he was dismissed, he said to Commander Brooke, “What would you know about commanding a ship? You’re just a flyboy!”
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