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Post by Mister Spaceman on Jan 26, 2020 8:17:10 GMT -5
I mis-remembered. Colan greatly appreciated Palmer's inks but specifically hated his use of Ben-Day. Apologies for the misinformation. Gene: I liked Tom's work very much. It was weighty, and he put in all the stuff that I liked—kind of like a Caniff. My work is not easy to follow, and he must've had a helluva time with it. Tom is an illustrator himself; he's done a lot of advertising art. So, he was very well-suited to it. Now, there's one thing that Tom used a lot of, and that's Ben-Day, that craft-tint that he'd paste on, which I hated. That was his thing, and I didn't understand why he did it. He thought it made the page look great, so....Here's the source, with Colan's thoughts on Palmer and other inkers: www.twomorrows.com/comicbookartist/articles/13colan.html |
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Post by rberman on Jan 26, 2020 8:39:22 GMT -5
I think it looks great too. Admittedly I haven't seen the "before."
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 26, 2020 9:34:38 GMT -5
More fake news. I'm calling for articles of impeachment .  |
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 26, 2020 9:37:40 GMT -5
I consider Colan to be in the top 10 artists in comic history. I don't think anyone could really copy his style, or has. Really unique layouts and mood setting. I always thought he was born to draw Batman.
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Post by Cei-U! on Jan 26, 2020 9:40:05 GMT -5
The only inker John Buscema liked over his pencils besides himself and brother Sal was Frank Giacoia, who he felt "got" his work. As for Colan, he was quite vocal about hating Vinnie Colletta's inks on his pencils.
Cei-U!
I summon the mismatch!
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 26, 2020 9:49:20 GMT -5
The only inker John Buscema liked over his pencils besides himself and brother Sal was Frank Giacoia, who he felt "got" his work. As for Colan, he was quite vocal about hating Vinnie Colletta's inks on his pencils. Cei-U! I summon the mismatch! I always found that strange, I loved Joe Sinnott and Palmers inks with John's work. Dave Cockrum did some beautiful finishes on Buscema as well. |
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Post by Mister Spaceman on Jan 26, 2020 10:21:06 GMT -5
Colan on Colletta and other inkers (from the Comic Book Artist interview linked above):
CBA: How about the inkers on Dracula? You did that first one yourself, then all of a sudden, you got Vinnie Colletta...
Gene: I didn't like his interpretation of my work. He messed it up.
CBA: Did he look for a simple way out?
Gene: Oh, it was strictly speed. That was his value to the company. They could give him a job, and he could probably turn it out overnight. I didn't want that. I tried, I worked real hard on my art, why should somebody come over and wreck it up? So, I never really had a good inker, not until Tom [Palmer] came along. Well, I liked Frank Giacoia. I don't know if he ever did Dracula.
CBA: He didn't do Dracula. Do you remember Ernie Chan? He did an issue or two. Jack Abel did a couple.
Gene: Yes, I knew Jack Abel. He did a lot of "Iron Man" with me. He had a very slick line, which was okay on "Iron Man," of course. Iron Man was made of iron, so you want it to look like metal. But when it came to stone and dark corners and garbage, [laughs] he wasn't the man for that.
(As a reader I've harbored a lifelong disdain for both Colletta and Abel as inkers.)
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Post by beccabear67 on Jan 26, 2020 14:01:38 GMT -5
I always felt Klaus Janson was thee inker for Gene Colan (and Frank Miller), but Tom Palmer was obviously good there as well. Palmer on Neal Adams was about as good as it gets. I'm not sure why but while Tom Palmer was good on John Byrne, it wasn't quite fireworks... I think Joe Rubenstein somehow was a little better with Byrne, but then that might be my favorite combo... I never understood the Terry Austin esteem to the degree he seemed to have... he was like a not quite as good Giordano disciple, sort of like Adkins to Wood. Okay, let me say this Terry Austin on Paul Smith and Colleen Doran? Not so good, too heavy, you can barely tell it's Smith and Doran. Also check him out on Marshall Rogers compared to his teacher Dick Giordano right after. I just don't get the Terry Austin ranking as best ever, not that he's terrible, and I like the few complete jobs he did or from layouts, and heck, anyone who digs Popeye and Silly Seal & Ziggy Pig can't be a bad person! I guess he suited Art Adams and Al Milgrom pencils well anyway, and was good on Byrne, just not best ever to me.
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Post by Mister Spaceman on Jan 26, 2020 14:44:05 GMT -5
Austin on Rogers and Byrne is perfect, to my eyes. Rubenstein and Layton on Byrne are also excellent. Palmer on Adams? Yes, please! As for Janson as the perfect match for Colan and Miller? I can't argue with that at all.
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Post by badwolf on Jan 26, 2020 19:43:39 GMT -5
Tying the Infantino discussion back into the "praising reliable artists" discussion... Can we take a minute to appreciate Tom Palmer? He could make even 80s Infantino look on-model. Not to mention he 99% drew the early issues that Chaykin was supposed to be penciling. |
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jan 27, 2020 0:37:18 GMT -5
Not to mention he 99% drew the early issues that Chaykin was supposed to be penciling. If you're talking Star Wars, that's not really accurate. The majority of the movie adaptation issues were inked (and embellished) by Steve Leialoha. The final issue of the adaptation was inked and co-pencilled by Rick Hoberg. Beyond that, Frank Springer inked issue #7. So, Palmer only inked Chaykin on SW issues #8-10, embellishing heavily over his breakdowns. However, even on those issues, where Palmer certainly did the heavy lifting on the art chores and, at times, altered some of Chaykin's art considerably, the panel layouts and story "beats" are pure Chaykin. |
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Post by berkley on Jan 27, 2020 0:59:09 GMT -5
The only inker John Buscema liked over his pencils besides himself and brother Sal was Frank Giacoia, who he felt "got" his work. As for Colan, he was quite vocal about hating Vinnie Colletta's inks on his pencils. Cei-U! I summon the mismatch! Yeah, it really diminished some otherwise outstanding work by Colan on one or more of the very early Tomb of Dracula issues, IIRC. |
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Post by berkley on Jan 27, 2020 1:07:37 GMT -5
As for Janson as the perfect match for Colan and Miller? I can't argue with that at all. I can: I thought the artwork on Howard the Duck took a big dive in quality after Janson replaced Steve Leialoha on the inks. It was really too bad, because I think the Colan+ Leialoha combo had been producing some of the best work of Colan's career. Not that Janson was as bad as was Coletta, but still, IMO not a good match in comparison to Leialoha or Palmer with Colan.
Janson and Miller, yes, that was a good team. But even there, after a while, I thought their work became a little too sketchy for my taste - almost as if Miller was satisfied just diagramming his panels, as if a good layout or panel composition was sufficient in itself. Compare his art on the earliest issues of his first DD run with what he was doing towards the end and I see a big difference - though obviously not many fans were complaining, so most people must have liked it.
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jan 27, 2020 1:51:30 GMT -5
I'm not a huge fan of Klaus Janson as an inker generally speaking. His stuff on Daredevil with Frank Miller looks fantastic, but when he's paired with other artists, I tend not to like it much.
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Post by berkley on Jan 27, 2020 2:23:05 GMT -5
Apart frmo Miller, I think my favourite Klaus Janson work was with Rich Buckler on Deathlok. But his style was different then, I think - he seemed to stick closer to the pencils than he did later on with Miller (possibly because Miller wasn't doing full pencils towards the end?)
With Colan, I think he just didn't have a good rapport and wasn't sure how to render Colan's unique style. The result wasn't terrible but to my eyes it didn't bring out the best in Colan's work.
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