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Post by brutalis on Jan 27, 2020 7:36:27 GMT -5
Colan and Janson are like Peanut Butter and Chocolate! Two great tastes that work well together sometimes, but I prefer them being as separate flavors with an occasional taste for them both together every once in a while. Very differing styles which when combined does make for something uniquely different. Janson took Colan into another level, looking like a more current artistic style being found in comics, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. I enjoyed their collaborations and since we weren't ever really seeing PURE Colan pencils all that regularly I think that I can safely speak for most here: gimme Janson rather than Colletta on Colan.
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Post by Mister Spaceman on Jan 27, 2020 8:51:03 GMT -5
The only thing Vince Colletta should have been allowed to ink were the instructions on an air sickness bag.
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Post by badwolf on Jan 27, 2020 10:02:01 GMT -5
Not to mention he 99% drew the early issues that Chaykin was supposed to be penciling. If you're talking Star Wars, that's not really accurate. The majority of the movie adaptation issues were inked (and embellished) by Steve Leialoha. The final issue of the adaptation was inked and co-pencilled by Rick Hoberg. Beyond that, Frank Springer inked issue #7. So, Palmer only inked Chaykin on SW issues #8-10, embellishing heavily over his breakdowns. However, even on those issues, where Palmer certainly did the heavy lifting on the art chores and, at times, altered some of Chaykin's art considerably, the panel layouts and story "beats" are pure Chaykin. I guess I was thinking of issues #8-10 then, which are early issues. As evidenced by supplemental materials in the Star Wars omnibus, Chaykin was barely drawing stick figures, so apart from the positioning of things, yes 99.9% of the work was done by Palmer. |
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Post by tarkintino on Jan 27, 2020 10:13:45 GMT -5
The only thing Vince Colletta should have been allowed to ink were the instructions on an air sickness bag. Wow. I mean....wow. |
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Post by brutalis on Jan 27, 2020 10:34:19 GMT -5
The only thing Vince Colletta should have been allowed to ink were the instructions on an air sickness bag. I don't consider Colletta as being that horrible. He is actually a darn good inker when he took time and made an effort. He took a lot of short cuts, and quickly turned around jobs in order for them being printed on schedule per the company's needs. Yes, he deleted art in the background to save time and effort and he made other artists madder than all get out because his inks totally overpowered much of their art. Demands of the job and all that as far as I am concerned. Personally, Vinnie C helped make many artists look better in their early days before learning their craft. I can say that I never felt the need to gouge out my eyes after reading a Colletta inked comic. |
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Post by Mister Spaceman on Jan 27, 2020 10:36:34 GMT -5
I didn't feel the need to gauge out my eyes either after looking at Colletta's work. They left of their own accord.
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Post by tarkintino on Jan 27, 2020 11:11:08 GMT -5
^ Yikes!
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 27, 2020 11:11:14 GMT -5
The only thing Vince Colletta should have been allowed to ink were the instructions on an air sickness bag. I say thee nay! Colletta did great work on many classic Thor issues over Kirby’s pencils. |
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Post by Mister Spaceman on Jan 27, 2020 11:36:04 GMT -5
Colletta defined comic book hack. His rushed work on Kirby's Thor alone qualifies him for the Comic Book Hall of Shame. Colletta was the worst thing to happen to Asgard since Ragnarok.
Goodness, I could roast Colletta all day - it's really too much fun!
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jan 27, 2020 11:56:26 GMT -5
If you're talking Star Wars, that's not really accurate. The majority of the movie adaptation issues were inked (and embellished) by Steve Leialoha. The final issue of the adaptation was inked and co-pencilled by Rick Hoberg. Beyond that, Frank Springer inked issue #7. So, Palmer only inked Chaykin on SW issues #8-10, embellishing heavily over his breakdowns. However, even on those issues, where Palmer certainly did the heavy lifting on the art chores and, at times, altered some of Chaykin's art considerably, the panel layouts and story "beats" are pure Chaykin. I guess I was thinking of issues #8-10 then, which are early issues. As evidenced by supplemental materials in the Star Wars omnibus, Chaykin was barely drawing stick figures, so apart from the positioning of things, yes 99.9% of the work was done by Palmer. Again, that's not really true though. Don't get me wrong, I'm not quibbling that Palmer did a fair bit of embellishing over Chaykin's breakdowns, and on occasion even redrew entire panels. But, as evidenced in the before and after example below (taken from the supplemental material in the Marvel Star Wars omnibus), the majority of the panel layouts and story "beats" are definitely Chaykin's. To drescribe Chaykin's pencils on these issues as "barely drawing stick figures" is simply not correct. Like I say, I'm not quibbling about Palmer having done the artistic heavy lifting on SW #8-10, but to say that the artwork is 99.9% Palmer is simply inaccurate.  |
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Post by beccabear67 on Jan 27, 2020 13:54:37 GMT -5
Colletta was kind of the guy they called in a deadline emergency. Inkers sometimes had to really bust a move and put their name to something well below perfect. There was sometimes the Diverse Hands credit, but often a Colletta, Mitchell, Palmiotti or others were called upon to break all speed records. That was a major downside of the regular schedule appearance of the comics on our spinner rack. No time for correcting the focus of an eye the inker got off on the first go. I remember seeing some original pages of Warlord by Mike Grell inked by Colletta that were really well done, among the best splash pages of all time I would think too.  You can get a great close-up look at this here: www.comiclink.com/img/comics/scans/RADE97572017116_17115.jpg |
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Post by brutalis on Jan 27, 2020 14:06:38 GMT -5
Bless you others who "defend" Vince Colletta's work. He is not a "hack" in any form that I consider the word. He cut corners and made sacrifices (often never really noticed until MUCH later) as Pencil Artists would "complain" about his changes but it remains that THE PUBLISHER'S accepted with what he was doing or he wouldn't have gotten so much work from them. Colletta had a fine, feathery and light pencil line which worked well on some and worse on others. I have seen some of his romance work and those all look great. And speaking of Grell, IMO I felt Colletta helped smooth out some of Grell's early stiffness and anatomy in the characters and "forced" Grell into becoming a faster and better artist if only because Grell disliked Colletta inking him.
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Post by badwolf on Jan 27, 2020 16:43:12 GMT -5
I guess I was thinking of issues #8-10 then, which are early issues. As evidenced by supplemental materials in the Star Wars omnibus, Chaykin was barely drawing stick figures, so apart from the positioning of things, yes 99.9% of the work was done by Palmer. Again, that's not really true though. Don't get me wrong, I'm not quibbling that Palmer did a fair bit of embellishing over Chaykin's breakdowns, and on occasion even redrew entire panels. But, as evidenced in the before and after example below (taken from the supplemental material in the Marvel Star Wars omnibus), the majority of the panel layouts and story "beats" are definitely Chaykin's. To drescribe Chaykin's pencils on these issues as "barely drawing stick figures" is simply not correct. Like I say, I'm not quibbling about Palmer having done the artistic heavy lifting on SW #8-10, but to say that the artwork is 99.9% Palmer is simply inaccurate. Ok I mis-remembered somewhat but still, one panel is completely blank!  and the next two, well... |
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Post by badwolf on Jan 27, 2020 17:22:26 GMT -5
I thought Janson was a great pairing with Sal Buscema on The Defenders.
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Post by Mister Spaceman on Jan 27, 2020 17:28:38 GMT -5
I thought Janson was a great pairing with Sal Buscema on The Defenders. Agreed. Janson greatly enhanced Sal's work. (Still, he couldn't do anythng about those mouths.)   |
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and the next two, well...