Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,212 
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Post by Confessor on Aug 19, 2020 0:13:20 GMT -5
I re-watched Alien 3 for the first time in probably two decades last year and I thought it was mostly excellent. Certainly much better than I remembered it being. In a lot of ways I actually preferred it to Aliens, but then I've always had a bit of a love/hate relationship with that particular movie.
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Aug 19, 2020 8:03:50 GMT -5
I re-watched Alien 3 for the first time in probably two decades last year and I thought it was mostly excellent. Certainly much better than I remembered it being. In a lot of ways I actually preferred it to Aliens, but then I've always had a bit of a love/hate relationship with that particular movie. I felt like Alien 3 was, like Alien, just better because it was a horror movie. Aliens (and many of the sequels after Alien 3) are just flat out action films. Now the difference in Alien and Predator is that Predator was always an action film. And all the movies following it were action films. But Scott did so well (so wtf was he thinking with the other Aliens films of his yikes) setting the tone of the script and making it a suspense horror film that Aliens seems out of place, even though objectively it a good film. But first watching it I couldn't shake the "meh" feeling for the movie, outside of the special effects and queen Alien. |
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Post by impulse on Aug 19, 2020 9:20:27 GMT -5
I think I'd have liked 3 more if it were a separate self-contained story. Forcing it as a sequel to Aliens and dumping all over it in the process soured me on it.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2020 9:58:41 GMT -5
As it is a sequel to ALIENS, shouldn’t it have been called ALIENS 2 (with a subtitle of ALIEN 3)?
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Post by Farrar on Aug 20, 2020 17:26:59 GMT -5
In the Greek myths Heracles was a famous archer himself - did Marvel's version ever make reference to that? Yes, it's been referred to now and again. One instance that springs to mind is from Avengers #41 -- memorable (for me, anyway) because it was John Buscema's first Avengers issue    written by Roy Thomas, pencils by J. Buscema, inks by George Bell (Roussos) |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Aug 20, 2020 19:40:27 GMT -5
All right, it has to be said... Alien 3 was a catastrophe. It has none of the unexpected choices of Aliens, very little of the horror of Alien, absolutely nothing new to offer except a big bug killing people in a closed environment, no character development beyond the artificial (and unfair) guilt felt by Ripley, and none of the world building we had experienced before.
The first Dark Horse Aliens miniseries should have been Alien 3. That series took the franchise to the next logical step instead of devolving it to a bland riff on the first one.
My loathing of this movie is not even surpassed by the one I have for the dismal Alien 4!
I summon the yechhhhh!!!
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Post by impulse on Aug 21, 2020 8:36:54 GMT -5
All right, it has to be said... Alien 3 was a catastrophe. It has none of the unexpected choices of Aliens, very little of the horror of Alien, absolutely nothing new to offer except a big bug killing people in a closed environment, no character development beyond the artificial (and unfair) guilt felt by Ripley, and none of the world building we had experienced before. The first Dark Horse Aliens miniseries should have been Alien 3. That series took the franchise to the next logical step instead of devolving it to a bland riff on the first one. My loathing of this movie is not even surpassed by the one I have for the dismal Alien 4! I summon the yechhhhh!!! Oh, Alien 4 was dismal. Luckily for it, Alien 3 had already set the bar so low that we didn't notice how low down 4 was because we tripped over it on the way and ground was at eye level. Ironically, I actually liked the first half of 4. It seemed like they had some interesting new twists and tension, and then...whatever the second half of the movie was happened. That was bad even for sci fi standards at the time. |
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Aug 21, 2020 9:29:11 GMT -5
My biggest gripe about Alien 3 and considering it on the par with Alien as far as being horror/suspense is that very little was left to the imagination. Many of the deaths were bloody gore and almost to the degree it was intended. Outside of Kane's death (which showing it was intricate to understanding the Alien's life cycle) most were left to the imagination of the viewer and what they thought was happening. Lambet and Parker's scene with the Alien still haunts my ears every time I watch. Her dialogue and not knowing what was happening was scarier than any gore filled death could ever top.
I also agree with you impulse on Resurrection. It started out promising, the first time I watched, and the the second half was just like wtf is this abomination. It was absolutely the worst thing on screen in the Aliens franchise. And I watched Prometheus.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Aug 21, 2020 10:03:26 GMT -5
My biggest gripe about Alien 3 and considering it on the par with Alien as far as being horror/suspense is that very little was left to the imagination. Many of the deaths were bloody gore and almost to the degree it was intended. Outside of Kane's death (which showing it was intricate to understanding the Alien's life cycle) most were left to the imagination of the viewer and what they thought was happening. Lambet and Parker's scene with the Alien still haunts my ears every time I watch. True, that was horror well done: the crew of the Nostromo had no idea what they were facing at first, and when they managed to at least understand that there was a dangerous creature on board, they didn't know what it was, what it might do or how to handle it. The alien brought with it the terror of the unknown. Plus, as with the shark in Jaws, you hardly ever saw it and nothing is more terrifying than a threat you can't see. In Alien 3 there is no mystery whatsoever, and whatever tension might be generated from the fact that a monster is trying to kill people was heavily diluted by the fact all those convicts were clearly all wearing red shirts. As a sequel it was also pretty depressing, since everybody we cared about from the previous film (Ripley, Bishop, Newt and Hicks) all end up dead anyway for no good payoff. |
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Post by impulse on Aug 21, 2020 10:15:17 GMT -5
I also agree with you impulse on Resurrection. It started out promising, the first time I watched, and the the second half was just like wtf is this abomination. It was absolutely the worst thing on screen in the Aliens franchise. And I watched Prometheus. WTF absolutely sums up the second half of that movie. I still to this day have no idea what anyone involved was thinking. As a sequel it was also pretty depressing, since everybody we cared about from the previous film (Ripley, Bishop, Newt and Hicks) all end up dead anyway for no good payoff. Very well-said. And not just for nothing, most of them were killed super cheaply. it just squandered all the emotional capital of Aliens in a terrible follow-up and for nothing. To tell that garbage story? What an utter waste.
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,212
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Post by Confessor on Aug 21, 2020 13:59:24 GMT -5
My biggest gripe about Alien 3 and considering it on the par with Alien as far as being horror/suspense is that very little was left to the imagination. Many of the deaths were bloody gore and almost to the degree it was intended. Outside of Kane's death (which showing it was intricate to understanding the Alien's life cycle) most were left to the imagination of the viewer and what they thought was happening. Lambet and Parker's scene with the Alien still haunts my ears every time I watch. True, that was horror well done: the crew of the Nostromo had no idea what they were facing at first, and when they managed to at least understand that there was a dangerous creature on board, they didn't know what it was, what it might do or how to handle it. The alien brought with it the terror of the unknown. Plus, as with the shark in Jaws, you hardly ever saw it and nothing is more terrifying than a threat you can't see. In Alien 3 there is no mystery whatsoever, and whatever tension might be generated from the fact that a monster is trying to kill people was heavily diluted by the fact all those convicts were clearly all wearing red shirts. As a sequel it was also pretty depressing, since everybody we cared about from the previous film (Ripley, Bishop, Newt and Hicks) all end up dead anyway for no good payoff. That's why Alien will always be superior. It was one alien...one perfect organism that you dare not kill...against a human crew, trapped on a spaceship with this creature. It was a classic and very claustrophobic haunted house/monster set up, but just in space. By the time of Aliens, the marines are blowing them away left, right and centre and with this the creature is de-fanged. Then there's all the psycho-sexual elements in Alien that elevate it beyond mere horror. Alien is a film from back when Ridley Scott, a true film auteur, still knew how to make decent films. As for Alien 3, I really don't think it deserves its low reputation. One of the best things it does is take the franchise away from the Vietnam in space, all action sci-fi thriller format (which is part of what I hated about Aliens). I also like that it undoes the happy ending of Aliens -- as Alien 3 opens we realise that Newt is dead and the fairy tale ending is over. But really, it's the return of the feeling of grittiness and unrelenting sense of unpleasantness that Alien 3 brings back to the franchise that I like. Likewise, the fact that Alien 3 denies Ripley a happy ending is to be applauded. For me, I just felt that Alien 3 was a more thematically worthy succesor to Alien than Aliens was, although I do still enjoy that film too to an extent. |
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Post by impulse on Aug 21, 2020 14:21:09 GMT -5
Not sure how barely escaping after a harrowing traumatic hellish ordeal is a fairy tale ending, but you do you.  For me, Alien was the definitive horror version. Aliens was a kickass action variation. If there was nothing new or vital to add, why reopen it? It was done. |
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Post by berkley on Aug 21, 2020 14:48:13 GMT -5
I don't remember much about Alien 3 but I agree that Aliens, though an enjoyable movie in itself, made the Aliens cannon fodder in a way that diminished the impact of the concept unforgivably.
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Post by impulse on Aug 21, 2020 15:05:27 GMT -5
I don't know about that. It was a different setting and different circumstances, and even going in fully prepared and armed to the teeth, only a handful of them made it out, and only just by the skin of their teeth.
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,212
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Which One?
Aug 21, 2020 20:54:31 GMT -5
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Post by Confessor on Aug 21, 2020 20:54:31 GMT -5
Not sure how barely escaping after a harrowing traumatic hellish ordeal is a fairy tale ending, but you do you. Ha! Well, I guess that I mean that Aliens had a happy ending within the nightmarish horror of the franchise. The hero and the cute kid do kill the monsters and escape to live happily ever after. That's certainly a fairy tale-esque ending, again excepting the intrinsic horror themes of the series. |
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