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Post by Rob Allen on Nov 16, 2020 13:10:04 GMT -5
Vision is by far the more memorable and interesting character.
I was never sure about how Red Tornado's power worked. They just showed a whirlwind in place of the lower half of his body. Were his legs whirling around or did they change shape somehow?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2020 14:56:00 GMT -5
Which One today? The Vision or Red Tornado? Your choice? I gotta go with Red Tornado. Purely from my experience with him in the 1982 Fisher-Price Book and Tape set: Justice League: The Lunar Invaders.  as well as the Super Powers toy line  That series of books and tapes as well as the toy line informed so much of my current fandom and always connects me to the DC Characters on a base emotional level. |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Nov 16, 2020 16:49:07 GMT -5
The Vision, no contest.
Too bad the character was destroyed when John Byrne decided to undo all the character development Vizh had undergone since his creation, including the (unnecessary but kind of cool) concept of Vision as a refurbished Human Torch. I had really enjoyed his discovery of emotions, his attraction and eventual marriage to Wanda, that time he stopped speaking in rectangular word balloons and his becoming a father. The yellowish-white Vision had an interesting look, but his becoming unemotional again was a major step backward (and speaking of look, I don't think any new costume was ever as good as his original one).
Ah, well. The vagaries of comic-book continuity.
The recent Vision series seemed quite fine, but I doubt that I'd recognize its main character.
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Post by Farrar on Nov 16, 2020 21:38:45 GMT -5
This always seemed to be almost a repeat of the nearly simultaneous appearances of the X-Men and the Doom Patrol, and again it was the DC version that appeared first. Red Tornado showed up in June 1968 in JLA 64, the Vision in Avengers 57 in August of '68. I've never read (or don't recall reading) any authoritative articles about the coincidence. Like the DP and the X-Men, though the similarities are unmistakeable, the almost concurrent first appearances argue against plagiarism. I know that Roy Thomas and Gardner Fox were at least acquaintances, but I have no idea if they talked much, so I have no idea if the two characters came about as the result of bull sessions between them. (Though, this was near the time that DC pulled the plug on Fox and many of the older staffers at DC, and he did write a few stories for Marvel afterwards, so maybe he and Roy were conversing? Both Thomas and Fox were fond of reviving/ reinventing Golden Age heroes. Fox had been doing that for years in the annual JLA/JSA team-ups, and went with Red Tornado in 1968, who, recall, was a member of the JSA, not the JLA at first. It was Len Wein, IIRC, who brought him to Earth-One. And the similarity in storylines seems a natural outgrowth of the fact that both were androids. I mean, the same "I don't fit in" trope was part of the characterization of the Thing, Negative Man, Robotman, Hulk, and probably a dozen other super-heroes. Before he turned pro, Roy Thomas had indeed corresponded with Gardner Fox, sending suggestions for JLA stories, who should join the team, revivals of older charcaters, etc. (some of the letters were private, some printed -- see the early JLA issue lettercols; you'll find missives by RT, and I don't mean Red Tornado  ). I'm sure many of us have come across RT's letters in those early 1960s DCs (and in some Marvels too). As for the proximity of the debuts of the Silver Age incarnations of Red Tornado and the Vision, over the years Roy's always maintained it was a coincidence. The subject comes up in TwoMorrow's J ustice League Companion, which contains a 2004 interview with Roy (and which seems to be the basis for various blogs/online columns that delve into this topic). He's stated DC probably had their character in mind before Roy did, as DC's books had the luxury of a longer (production) lead time, but that there was no knowledge on his part of what DC was doing. He's related that when Stan told him to add an android to the Avengers, Roy--who liked the look of the GA Vision (as associate editor of Marvel Super-Heroes, Roy had included a GA Vision story in MSH #13, on sale in Dec. 1967)--had Buscema use the GA Vision as a template. Roy has stated many times in interviews that back in those days he didn't want to create any new characters since he wouldn't be the owner of the characters (and he didn't want to suffer the fate of Siegel and Shuster). As for Red Tornado and Vision's scarlet skin hue, according to Roy, the reason the new Vision had red skin and not the greenish skin of the GA version was because that would have been too reminiscent of the Hulk. |
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Post by hondobrode on Nov 17, 2020 3:50:04 GMT -5
Easily the Vision, and I love the connectivity to the original Human Torch.
Red Tornado, frankly, hasn't had nearly the screen time that the Vision has, and I feel like I barely know the character.
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Post by foxley on Nov 17, 2020 4:07:00 GMT -5
For some reason, I read a lot of stories with Red Tornado in them when I was first getting into superhero comics. So Reddy is deeply impressed on my psyche as an interesting character.
By the time Marvel was impinging on my reading habits, Vision was just some schlub who wanted to to live the quiet life in the suburbs with his shrewish wife (whose attractions I have never seen). Not exactly the stuff of thrilling superhero adventures.
So Red Tornado for me (Tornado Tyrant origin retcon and all. Not so keen on him becoming an elemental, but the Vision has to deal with Joihn Byrne doing his usual 'everything you know about the character is wrong! Only my version counts!')
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2020 14:01:06 GMT -5
Vision was my favorite Avenger as a kid. He remained one of my favorites until Byrne gutted everything interesting about the character in West Coast Avengers. -M So very true (and I say that as a Byrne fan). |
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Post by beccabear67 on Nov 20, 2020 14:47:08 GMT -5
Vision. Never liked the android Red Tornado (Ma Hunkel is another story, but she ain't no android). I wanna post a pic of Ma Hunkel anyway...  I guess I have more personal nostalgia for seeing The Vision on and in Avengers comics however. Here he is off duty and vacationing on his honeymoon!  |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Nov 20, 2020 14:59:18 GMT -5
Vision was my favorite Avenger as a kid. He remained one of my favorites until Byrne gutted everything interesting about the character in West Coast Avengers. -M So very true (and I say that as a Byrne fan). Welcome back, friend! You were missed! I was also a big fan of Byrne in the '80s, and still think nobody draws tech like he does. I discovered his art at just the right age to be hooked for life. That said, his treatment of Vision and Wanda was a serious error. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2020 15:01:40 GMT -5
Thank you for the welcome!  I remember Byrne criticising Peter David’s Hulk work, I think the words were something about the changes David had done (I love David’s Hulk run). Yet Byrne made the Vision white and unemotional, a change I did not endorse. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2020 15:08:02 GMT -5
On the question, I don’t know if Red Tornado has received the character development I would like. I realise that is subjective. He looks cool visually. And the “base emotional level” was mentioned earlier, I remember the Kenner Super Powers figure.
But I think the Vision elicits much more emotion out of me.
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Post by beccabear67 on Nov 20, 2020 15:50:12 GMT -5
They have to come up with something to get comic books out or it'd be blank pages, so they mess with the characters, and sometimes, maybe too often, mess them up badly. I'm okay with them trying anything if it can be resolved and undone if it turns out not to work (as in kills the known character to a point they no longer seem viable). I really don't know what they did with the Vision for quite a long stretch. he seems to have been more or less back in some kind of shape by the 1998 Avengers series I do have (although no longer with The Scarlet Witch, perhaps because of when he was changed by Byrne?). Welcome back driver1980! |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2020 16:06:33 GMT -5
Thank you. :-)
I thought the Vision looked awful in white. What was wrong with green and red?
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Which One?
Nov 20, 2020 20:46:25 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Batflunkie on Nov 20, 2020 20:46:25 GMT -5
On the question, I don’t know if Red Tornado has received the character development I would like. I realise that is subjective. He looks cool visually. And the “base emotional level” was mentioned earlier, I remember the Kenner Super Powers figure. But I think the Vision elicits much more emotion out of me. I know that Tornado was a supporting character in David's Young Justice, but I haven't read it, so I have no idea Also welcome back buddy~ |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2020 22:20:02 GMT -5
On the question, I don’t know if Red Tornado has received the character development I would like. I realise that is subjective. He looks cool visually. And the “base emotional level” was mentioned earlier, I remember the Kenner Super Powers figure. But I think the Vision elicits much more emotion out of me. He got some pretty great character development in the Young Justice animated series where he served as the team's mentor for the first season. And welcome back Good Sir. |
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). I'm sure many of us have come across RT's letters in those early 1960s DCs (and in some Marvels too). 
