Crimebuster
CCF Podcast Guru
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Post by Crimebuster on Nov 21, 2020 3:32:30 GMT -5
Vision is a billion times more interesting in almost* every way.
* - I do like Red Tornado's relationship with a regular person. That was interesting.
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Post by EdoBosnar on Nov 21, 2020 5:22:15 GMT -5
Vision is a billion times more interesting in almost* every way. * - I do like Red Tornado's relationship with a regular person. That was interesting. You touched on something here that I didn't like about Vision: the relationship with/marriage to Wanda (although I'm no fan of the 'solution' in West Coast Avengers). I always thought it would have been more interesting if Vision had fallen in love with a regular (i.e. non-superpowered) individual. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2020 6:17:37 GMT -5
Thanks for the welcome back, guys. Seems like I need to check out Red Tornado’s animated exploits!
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Post by Farrar on Nov 21, 2020 13:26:20 GMT -5
I remember reading Avengers #57 (which I'd gotten off the stands) and not being very impressed by the new character the Vision. And then a few months later I picked up justice League of America #64 as a back issue (it had been published a couple of months before Avengers #57, but I could never find JLA on the stands), at that time time I remember thinking, wait a second, didn't I already read this story?!?   RT in JLA #64 (on sale in June 1968) Vision in Avengers #67 (on sale in Aug. 1968) Anyway, my response for this particular "which one?" is the Vision all the way. As others have already noted, Vision became a member of the team right away and RT was a sporadic guest star (usually during the annual JLA-JSA issues), so the Vision became a familiar character, someone readers got to know, as opposed to a once-in-a-while guest star. And sorry, but this panel, from JLA #64, scared the sh!t out of me back then:  In contrast, the Vision was depicted as visually attractive (well, of course -- he was drawn by John Buscema!). However Buscema-infused pulchritude notwithstanding, I will admit it took me awhile to warm up to the Vision. In fact I initially resented him because it was obvious that he'd been created just to add more physical strength and existentialist angst to the team. Yawn. For a while I merely tolerated his presence on the core team (which included Hank--first as Goliath, then as Y; Wasp; Black Panther; Hawkeye (who switched to Goliath), with the Big Three showing up a lot. But then my favorite Marvel character the Scarlet Witch returned to the team, and it soon became apparent (with Avengers #81) that Roy Thomas was going to have Wanda and the Vision become romantically involved. So that's when the Vision became interesting to me. |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Nov 21, 2020 18:08:53 GMT -5
Vision. And it's not even close. Vision was arguably the lynchpin Avenger from the time-period I was reading that book fairly regularly. Red Tornado, on the other hand, was just kind of there.
Closer call if we're talking Ma Hunkle, who was a hoot.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2020 18:38:19 GMT -5
Not too familiar with either, but I like Red Tornado on the Young Justice cartoon and I think he looks cooler.
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Post by brutalis on Nov 23, 2020 6:56:47 GMT -5
Which one this time: Ultron or Braniac as the most villainous machine? Ultron for me as he just comes across much more motivated in his desire to destroy humanity and the team of his "father" Pym, the Avengers in partiwild. I like his eerie head design and his actual body can and has changed with different stories as well his adamantium armor making him tough to defeat. Seeing a horde of Ultron's is down right horrible and was well done for the movie.
Never really cared for Brainiac in his green human looking self in the early Superman. It was his more alien robotic version that finally gave him a truly scary makeover (that giant skull/brain) ship of his was wild.
Who is your fave machine overlord?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2020 8:12:31 GMT -5
Since Ultron is one of my absolute favorite Marvel villains and in my favorite childhood issue of Avengers...  this one is a no-brainer for me-Ultron. -M |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2020 9:42:20 GMT -5
I will fight anyone (in the wrestling ring) who votes for Ultron. Brainiac all the way. On his worst day, Brainiac defeats Ultron. Always.  I loved the early 80s look of Brainiac. And the modern look. But whatever the era, he scares me. If I existed in the superhero universe, I’d battle Bane, while nursing a broken ankle, than even take on Brainiac for one second. He is terrifying. |
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Post by berkley on Nov 23, 2020 9:54:11 GMT -5
Ultron. But as with the Vision, even though Ultron has been a major character in several of my favourite Avengers comics - the early Thomas/Buscema issues and the Shooter/Perez one mrp posted above - I don't think of the character himself as a favourite, effective though he is as an antagonist for the heroes.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Nov 23, 2020 10:43:37 GMT -5
We all know how I feel about Superman and his ilk. Need you even ask?
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Post by EdoBosnar on Nov 23, 2020 11:19:22 GMT -5
Ultron
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Nov 23, 2020 12:04:51 GMT -5
I would say Ultron, but that's only really because of his role in Annihilation Conquest. Otherwise I really don't know anything about either of them. Though if memory serves I do own the above posted Avengers issue, but I don't remember the story.
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Post by Rob Allen on Nov 23, 2020 12:29:49 GMT -5
Malevolent computers never made sense to me. That said, I've read more good Ultron stories than Brainiac stories.
Last year I re-read Ultron's first appearance, and my impression was that he was not initially intended as a major recurring villain. He was destroyed in the issue after he was introduced. It seemed like he was there only because Roy needed somebody to build the Vision.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Nov 23, 2020 13:13:28 GMT -5
One of my favourite stories ever is the Ann Nocenti-penned "Daredevil vs Ultron" storyline in which our misanthropic robotic friend waxes philosophical about the nature of perfection. Alas, that was no typical Ultron story.
I like how Ultron is depicted as almost unbeatable, being made of Adamantium and all. I like how initial appearances added a number to his name, making it easy to know how many times he had been seen. His strange design, too, with what looks like a grinning face, was a plus. His taking over the Kree Empire in Annihilation: conquest was also all kinds of cool.
However, and despite my being a Marvel guy rather than a DC fan, I will vote for Brainiac.
The robotic Brainiac manages to convince me of its utter lack of emotion, a trait that really increases his (its?) alienness. The skeletal look is also very impressive, all the more so since skull-based designs are legion in the comic-book world. This is a machine, a very scary machine, akin to Skynet and the earliest Terminators.
There's also that I read very few Brainiac stories (a grand total of two, one of them being "whatever happened to the man of tomorrow") and so I never grew jaded by his repeated appearances. Great villains can't return too many times before losing their aura of invincibility, and looking like a lesser threat; unlike Ultron, who was defeated a great number of times, I only saw Brainiac lose twice (and in one of those cases, he did cause tremendous damage to Superman's extended family. That's one scary robot).
I think both are neat opponents for our heroes, and it is to Ultron's credit that he managed to remain relevant after so many decades, but yeah... robot Brainiac.
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