Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,197 
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Post by Confessor on Apr 7, 2020 9:17:42 GMT -5
Unsurprisngly, if you know me, I'm voting Beatles by a country mile.
I like The Stones a lot too -- I have every album that they made from their 1964 debut, up to 1972's Exile On Main Street, so I'm much more than just a casual fan. I also like The Who, but other than a "Greatest Hits" type CD, the only albums of there's I own are The Who Sell Out (1967) and Tommy (1969), so I'm not such a big fan of their stuff.
They're all great bands -- as are Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd -- but any which way you look at it, whether it's songwriting chops, musical innovation, melodic inventiveness, chart success, influence on other musicians, cultural impact, the Beatles really trounce all comers.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2020 11:31:13 GMT -5
Beatles, Stones or the Who - The Stones by a country mile. The Who had some decent singles, but their albums were lousy. The Beatles had some poppy teenybopper singles but their albums were full of sub-par filler, and I've never been a fan of their later material, with a particularly loathing for Sgt Pepper. I would miss the Stones hugely, I wouldn't be overly bothered if I never heard the Who again, and I'd be actively pleased to never hear the Beatles again - didn't like them much in the first place and they've been so overplayed
Zep, Who or the Floyd - and it's the Floyd by an even bigger margin. Never been a big Zep fan - can't stand screechy vocalists. For The Who, see above. Floyd are very variable, with some albums being largely unlistenable (Ummagumma and Atom Heart Mother), but the run from Obscured by Couds through to Animals is as good a run as any artist has ever done. They well and truly jumped the shark with The Wall, though
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2020 11:34:55 GMT -5
I do really, REALLY like Offspring however. Even though most of their songs sound like Ace Of Base where they're almost intentionally plagiarizing themselves I found Offspring to be maddeningly variable - I'm a huge fan of Smash, and I like Ignition and Amiricana a lot, but Ixnay was dreadful and they seemed to just totally lose it after Americana |
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Post by Batflunkie on Apr 7, 2020 11:38:49 GMT -5
I do really, REALLY like Offspring however. Even though most of their songs sound like Ace Of Base where they're almost intentionally plagiarizing themselves I found Offspring to be maddeningly variable - I'm a huge fan of Smash, and I like Ignition and Amiricana a lot, but Ixnay was dreadful and they seemed to just totally lose it after Americana IDK, just my opinion, but Ixnay is where they really started to come into their own, same with Americana. Conspiracy Of One is where they peaked though and just kind of dropped off afterwards |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2020 11:43:06 GMT -5
Missed Batman v Superman (wish I could say that about the film!) - well, I hugely dislike the Bat-god version of the character, Bats can generally hold down a story, whereas mein gott Superman is soooo dull, so Batman, easily.
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Post by berkley on Apr 7, 2020 12:02:51 GMT -5
I remembered a few more music debates that used to be in the air back in the early 70s:
prog kings: ELP or Yes? (King Crimson would probably have been the critics' choice but I think the fans' debate was usually between those first two)
top guitar god (after Hendrix's death): Clapton, Page, or Beck?
That last one is interesting because I remember pretty well how it went: Page won hands down in terms of broad popularity, Clapton would probably get the nod from those listeners who thought of themselves as more discriminating aficionados, but Jeff Beck seemed the clear choice amongst other guitar players (I specifically recall seeing Richie Blackmore and Brian May name Beck as their favourite guitarist in separate intervews).
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Post by impulse on Apr 7, 2020 13:06:33 GMT -5
I found Offspring to be maddeningly variable - I'm a huge fan of Smash, and I like Ignition and Amiricana a lot, but Ixnay was dreadful and they seemed to just totally lose it after Americana IDK, just my opinion, but Ixnay is where they really started to come into their own, same with Americana. Conspiracy Of One is where they peaked though and just kind of dropped off afterwards Yeah, obviously Smash is great, and Americana was pretty good. They lost a little edge but were mostly still great. Conspiracy of One is the last album of theirs I really enjoyed. The odd single since then has been all right, but they seemed to use up their best mojo by Conspiracy of One. Then again, how much was really left unsaid in their brand of pop punk that hadn't been thoroughly covered by then? top guitar god (after Hendrix's death): Clapton, Page, or Beck? That last one is interesting because I remember pretty well how it went: Page won hands down in terms of broad popularity, Clapton would probably get the nod from those listeners who thought of themselves as more discriminating aficionados, but Jeff Beck seemed the clear choice amongst other guitar players (I specifically recall seeing Richie Blackmore and Brian May name Beck as their favourite guitarist in separate intervews). I can't speak for the 70s since I hadn't been born but looking back from then through now, Beck by a landslide, and it's not even close. Further, I'd put down money that Clapton and Page would agree that it's Beck. I personally do not like all of what he does, especially when he got into the jazz fusion stuff, but as a pure talent and master of the instrument, there is no competition. Beck won in that category.
In terms of popularity, it's pretty obviously Clapton. Page apparently fell into a ditch after Zeppelin broke up as far as any major named output.
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Post by beccabear67 on Apr 7, 2020 13:44:59 GMT -5
It's hard to say The Beatles weren't the most important and influential group of the '60s. I have everything. Same with the others, if it exists I probably have it, even totally low-fi performances for hospital radio with Pete Best on drums, Stones demos with different line-ups, and pre-Who Detours and High Numbers sides. It might sound shite or fade in an out or be buried under snap crackle and pop... never did find the elusive Barry Gray studio demo of the first Pete Townshend original song from like 1962-63 sadly.
Queen (also Smile), them I don't have everything, and now I'm curious... PM if you can help me get any kind of grasp on what there is pre the debut LP. I heard (I think) something of the group Smile with that Tim guy on vocals in that recent movie, and though I have some Brian May '1984' (a pre-Queen group he was in), I have only seen some photos of the Smile threesome. I would love to be able to hear some of their recordings, live or studio (darlings). I know there were some early Queen demos, I heard one once, sounding very multi-generation and muffled, and I'd like to get into that if anything like Byrds Preflyte was released in decent quality.
So guitarists? If I have to pick one it might be prime, all there, focused Peter Green. But usually I say Nokie Edwards (from The Ventures). I would literally buy anything he played on from any time. Of the three choices though I guess Jeff Beck. I thought it was usually Hendrix vs. just Clapton among your average fans though? Like the Beatles the importance and influence of Jimi is hard to question.
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Post by beccabear67 on Apr 7, 2020 13:58:02 GMT -5
I'd be actively pleased to never hear the Beatles again - didn't like them much in the first place and they've been so overplayed I went through a phase like that, they seemed to really push ditties like Lovely Rita Meter Maid and Paperback on radio a lot. But... then I got clued in to a lot of the not so big hit tracks and flipsides... I'm Looking Through You, There's A Place, If I Needed Someone, Rain, It's All Too Much... and the original UK Parlophone albums. Amazing the quality and inventiveness and scope. Great band! Period. Most people have really heard only a fraction of what they did and maybe in not best quality. These are excellent recordings technically often too thanks to George Martin and when you really get to hear them in best fidelity they can blow anybody's mind I think (even say a Metallica fan, and Kurt Hammond is hall of fame great on guitar there). I don't want to rub anyone the wrong way, I'm pretty extreme in being deep when it comes to geeking out on music, and there's always someone who has or knows things I don't. Always on some kind of quest to go further (as with Queen/Smile) myself too. Turn on!  |
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,197
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Post by Confessor on Apr 7, 2020 14:06:52 GMT -5
I remembered a few more music debates that used to be in the air back in the early 70s: prog kings: ELP or Yes? (King Crimson would probably have been the critics' choice but I think the fans' debate was usually between those first two) Neither. Genesis (Peter Gabriel era) top guitar god (after Hendrix's death): Clapton, Page, or Beck? Still Jimi Hendrix. |
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,197
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Post by Confessor on Apr 7, 2020 14:16:49 GMT -5
The Beatles had some poppy teenybopper singles but their albums were full of sub-par filler... You're entitled to your opinion, but you're wrong. One of the (many) things that the Beatles changed in popular music was the musical and compositional quality of album tracks. Prior to them, the vast majority of pop albums were a hit single and then a whole load of filler to pad it out. One of the things that both critics and audiences remarked upon and agreed about at the time was that the Beatles' albums featured uncommonly strong material throughout (much of it self-penned). Many of their albums also didn't include hit singles because they felt that if a song had already been on a single then it was a rip off for the fans if they also included it on an album. The quality of the Beatles' album tracks upped the ante for every musician or band making albums in the 1960s. |
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Post by beccabear67 on Apr 7, 2020 14:27:22 GMT -5
Prior to them, the vast majority of pop albums were a hit single and then a whole load of filler to pad it out. Definitely! I grew up with my Dad's copy of the first Gene Vincent album with stuff like old standards Jezebel and Peg O' My heart (and Gene and Bluecaps do great versions of them). The Beatles are who put albums on the map as far as sales for pop/rock & roll). |
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Post by Batflunkie on Apr 7, 2020 14:28:54 GMT -5
IDK, just my opinion, but Ixnay is where they really started to come into their own, same with Americana. Conspiracy Of One is where they peaked though and just kind of dropped off afterwards Yeah, obviously Smash is great, and Americana was pretty good. They lost a little edge but were mostly still great. Conspiracy of One is the last album of theirs I really enjoyed. The odd single since then has been all right, but they seemed to use up their best mojo by Conspiracy of One. Then again, how much was really left unsaid in their brand of pop punk that hadn't been thoroughly covered by then? IDK, Offspring kind of reminds me of Cake in a way, how they're not entirely punk but incorporate different musical elements (even then I'd argue that they're not really a punk rock band with stuff like Dirty Magic). I utterly hate Green Day and will never understand their appeal at all |
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Post by impulse on Apr 7, 2020 14:46:33 GMT -5
These are excellent recordings technically often too thanks to George Martin and when you really get to hear them in best fidelity they can blow anybody's mind I think (even say a Metallica fan, and Kurt Hammond is hall of fame great on guitar there). As a Metallica fan and metal aficionado, yes, even Metallica fans can appreciate the studio achievements of George Martin with the Beatles. Ironic they are your choice of reference because at one time they were one of the best produced metal bands out there. They also have some of the famously worst produced metal albums too, so go figure.
Also as a Metallica fan, and I mean no offense, I cringed at Kurt Hammond.  Kirk Hammett was quite the player in the 80s, but sadly he's plateaued since then. Geeking out about music is one of my favorite things on this earth, so can't faulkt you there.
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Post by impulse on Apr 7, 2020 14:48:31 GMT -5
Yeah, obviously Smash is great, and Americana was pretty good. They lost a little edge but were mostly still great. Conspiracy of One is the last album of theirs I really enjoyed. The odd single since then has been all right, but they seemed to use up their best mojo by Conspiracy of One. Then again, how much was really left unsaid in their brand of pop punk that hadn't been thoroughly covered by then? IDK, Offspring kind of reminds me of Cake in a way, how they're not entirely punk but incorporate different musical elements (even then I'd argue that they're not really a punk rock band with stuff like Dirty Magic). I utterly hate Green Day and will never understand their appeal at all I mean, at least for the first few albums they were pretty clearly rooted as a pop-punk band, even if they brought in more and more other elements. I liked Dookie, Insomniac, and Nimrod. I used to like American Idiot but it is well played out. I can do without everything else Green Day put out. |
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Kirk Hammett was quite the player in the 80s, but sadly he's plateaued since then.