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Post by Ozymandias on Apr 27, 2020 4:16:39 GMT -5
Checking the prices of the Overstreet Guide (Newkadia), I see these issues still had a price of $8 for a NM- copy, not that long ago (48th edition?).
Now try buying them and see what you find. When did the prices for these issues go bonkers? When was the character's appearance in the Black Widow movie made public? I find it strange that this alone would be the reason, I mean, these issues were already reprinted as part of Toy Biz's Marvel Legends Series, in 2006, so back then it was already popular.
Facts or opinions about the subject are welcome.
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Post by codystarbuck on Apr 27, 2020 12:21:49 GMT -5
Checking the prices of the Overstreet Guide (Newkadia), I see these issues still had a price of $8 for a NM- copy, not that long ago (48th edition?).
Now try buying them and see what you find. When did the prices for these issues go bonkers? When was the character's appearance in the Black Widow movie made public? I find it strange that this alone would be the reason, I mean, these issues were already reprinted as part of Toy Biz's Marvel Legends Series, in 2006, so back then it was already popular.
Facts or opinions about the subject are welcome.
Yup; pretty much. You put a character in a film and suddenly everyone jacks up the price a hundredfold. The stupidity of it is that suckers will fork out the cash for it, at those prices. Thing is, if you were to seriously analyze any verifiable increase in demand, you would find it way smaller than that kind of market price would indicate. They put Elf With a Gun into a film and watch those Defenders issues skyrocket! |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2020 12:24:27 GMT -5
Announced upcoming movie and TV prices have been driving up 1st appearances for over a decade now. It is the new norm. Overstreet is outdated by the time it is published in this day and age. It reflects what a select group price their books at a year or more ago when published, and has a minimum price level that doesn't reflect the presence of thousands of issues in bargain bins at stores and cons across the country. It is not reflective of actual sales prices but what the advisers think the books should be priced at. It was an invaluable resource at one point, but now it is almost irrelevant because prices change far faster than the Guide can reflect. It also no longer accurately reflects the pricing disparity between high and low grades. Low grades (and even some midgrades) for non-key issues regularly sell for well below their guided value, while high grade books (especially slabbed books) regularly sell for above guide.
Pretty much as soon as a character is announced to be in an upcoming movie or film who hasn't been in one before, throw Overstreet out the window for their first appearances. There will be an initial spike in prices as demand will spike. And it is demand (not supply) that determined prices in the comic collectible market. Once the demand kicks in, prices will continue to rise until it reaches a level where either either demand is met steadily at that price (which it will then hold) or demand drops off (in which prices will drop but not down to pre-movie announcement prices). If you want to track going rate for those books, you need to look at things like completed ebay auctions to see what it is selling at, or the buying price of places like Mycomicshop/Lonestar to see what they are buying at and then extrapolate what they can sell it for (they usually price at 3-4X times their buying price and don't buy up what they don't think they can sell at that price, if they have a price listed it will sell at their mark up, if no price is listed, they have seen demand level off and do not think it will hold value or continue to sell at current price levels).
Overstreet does not and cannot reflect what the current market is. It is a snapshot of what a select group thought the market was 1-2 years ago, so it will never accurately reflect what prices are for books whose demand increases for any reason (movie, TV or otherwise) in the current marketplace.
And I haven't seen the Taskmaster appearances selling at a con in high grade for under $20 each in over four years, and copies move at that price all the time, so again Overstreet wasn't reflecting what was actually happening in the wild, so the recent surge in demand for those issues is going to spike asking prices, and if they continue to move at the higher price, it will be the new going rate or will continue to rise until the price reaches a level where demands flattens.
Overstreet remains a great reference for comics, as long as you ignore the pricing guidelines and use it for the other info it provides. For pricing, it is outdated the moment it is printed and much of its listed prices never reflected reality to begin with.
-M
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Crimebuster
CCF Podcast Guru
Making comics!
Posts: 3,959 
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Post by Crimebuster on Apr 27, 2020 12:32:11 GMT -5
Yeah, Overstreet is just wrong. This hasn't been an $8 book in over a decade. If memory serves me, Taskmaster started getting some heat during the Dark Reign era circa 2008, as he was featured prominently in Avengers Academy or something like that. Its definitely jumped a lot due to movie speculation, which almost never pays off, but it already broke out well before that.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2020 12:35:11 GMT -5
Avengers #196 is listed at #49 in the 2020 Investment worthy books with specific mention of the Taskmaster.
The books on the list are useful to know about.
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Post by badwolf on Apr 27, 2020 14:03:06 GMT -5
ComicBase shows them as having held steady at around $25 and $80, respectively, for the last few years. I don't remember when I got the copies I have now, but I definitely didn't pay that much. They were something like $3-5 each.
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Post by Ozymandias on Apr 27, 2020 14:13:50 GMT -5
buying price of places like Mycomicshop/Lonestar to see what they are buying at Where do you find that info? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2020 14:52:06 GMT -5
buying price of places like Mycomicshop/Lonestar to see what they are buying at Where do you find that info? Go to their site, go to the sell my comics section (one of the tab options on the top of their page). Once on the sell my comics page, there is a yellow box on top with some options. Click on record items you want to sell. Then type the issue you are looking for into the search box. Doing a search on Avengers 196, anything 8.0 or better is best offer, which means they will match any offer you get from another dealer to buy it from you. they are buying 6.0 (Fine) at $27 in trade, or $22.50 in cash. For #195, prices are a bit less, they are only buying a 6.0 of that issue at $6.48 in credit or $5.40 in cash. Only 9.4 or better is best offer. They will buy 9.2 copies at $59.40 in credit, or $49.50 in cash. By comparison, the only non-slabbed, non-consigned copy of #196 they have for sale is an 8.5 (VF) copy for $160, which using some quick estimates falls in line with the 3-4X their buying prices. One caveat, they do not set the prices on consigned books, the seller does, so the mark up does not reflect their buying prices on those books. There are no non-consignment copies of #195 for sale, so I can't make any conclusions on mark up there. -M |
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Post by beccabear67 on Apr 28, 2020 0:43:10 GMT -5
There was a bump a few years ago (just a little before I re-bought a copy of each) because of the new Ant-Man appearances, though Marvel Premiere #47 & 48 and Avengers #181 got more of a bump. There was the first movie that was popular based sort of on the Scott Lang second Ant-Man, and then news of the second movie coming kept them 'hot' I suppose. Taskmaster has bumped #196 a bit further obviously. A Lot of Ms. Marvel comics took off when that Captain Marvel movie was announced, luckily I'd just completed the run (even the Mystique appearances)! I did pay a little extra I think for Black Panther #14 & 15 as the movie was announced by then, can't always hit things just right I guess.
I think it's a bit of a stretch though to think the movies really increase demand or interest, but if enough people think they do...
Is that Spider-Verse movie when Peter Porker comics all went up? I thought it might be fun to collect them but I was too late on that title... didn't want to pay the prices I saw for any issues. Or it could've been that they were harder to find in decent condition anyway as a lot of them were bought originally by little kids?
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Post by Ozymandias on Apr 28, 2020 4:52:07 GMT -5
I think it's a bit of a stretch though to think the movies really increase demand or interest, but if enough people think they do... I agree, we try to anticipate what will happen with the tools mentioned in this thread, for example. If enough people agree on a comic keeping or raising its value, it will sell for a given price, and rise over time. It's like a collective self-fulfilling prophecy, even if the number of people interested in Avengers #196 doesn't increase because of the movie, if the ones who were previously interested in it, think such increase will happen, what's sure to happen is an increase in price, irrespective of whether there's more demand or not.
I'm currently watching several auctions at eBay, and I don't see more people than usual, bidding for the items, neither do they reach 3-4x the buying price at LS for a given grade. And yet, "buy it now" ads have higher prices, raising the amount (if not the quantity) of the bids.
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Post by Icctrombone on Apr 28, 2020 5:26:54 GMT -5
I have an almost complete run of the Avengers series V.1, and I think I bought them off the newsstand regularly from around 160 on. The others I picked in comic shows beginning in the late 70's. All the issues from 20 and up I bought relatively inexpensively but I remember filling in the first 20 or so from eBay. I had to rebuy 57, 90-100 a few years back when my idiot stepson went to my attic to hang out with " friends" and they robbed those issues. I was lucky enough to pick up Avengers # 195/196 for 40 cents. I would cringe at the prospect of buying them today.
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Post by dbutler69 on Apr 28, 2020 8:13:28 GMT -5
Yeah, Overstreet is just wrong. This hasn't been an $8 book in over a decade. If memory serves me, Taskmaster started getting some heat during the Dark Reign era circa 2008, as he was featured prominently in Avengers Academy or something like that. Its definitely jumped a lot due to movie speculation, which almost never pays off, but it already broke out well before that. I remember about 20 years ago looking at my Overstreet Guide and thinking I was rich! Then I looked at ebay and saw what things were really going for.  Overstreet is a cool guide, but the prices in there are way too high and not in line with reality, or at least that used to be the case. I haven't looked at an Overstreet in decades. Ebay and the internet in general killed comic prices IMO and made it a buyer's market. As to this specific price bump, once the euphoria of this movie appearance goes away, the price will crash down to earth. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2020 9:02:17 GMT -5
I think it's a bit of a stretch though to think the movies really increase demand or interest, but if enough people think they do... I agree, we try to anticipate what will happen with the tools mentioned in this thread, for example. If enough people agree on a comic keeping or raising its value, it will sell for a given price, and rise over time. It's like a collective self-fulfilling prophecy, even if the number of people interested in Avengers #196 doesn't increase because of the movie, if the ones who were previously interested in it, think such increase will happen, what's sure to happen is an increase in price, irrespective of whether there's more demand or not. I'm currently watching several auctions at eBay, and I don't see more people than usual, bidding for the items, neither do they reach 3-4x the buying price at LS for a given grade. And yet, "buy it now" ads have higher prices, raising the amount (if not the quantity) of the bids.
Comics have no inherent monetary value. Neither do any collectibles. All of the prices/values for collectibles are the result of collective self-fulfilling values. That's the nature of the collectibles market. The increase n demand for comics that feature 1st appearances of characters that are appearing in movies and TVs usually comes from an influx of new potential customers who don't usually buy comics aside form those with perceived potential value increases and from dealers/vendors/flippers who are seeking stock to satisfy those customers, plus collectors reacting to the surge in interest scrambling to get copies before they increase too much in price. As much as many long-time collectors want to live in denial about this, it has been the norm for the industry for over a decade and isn't going to change/go away any time soon. Talk to people in the trenches selling comics at conventions or in shops Ask them about how they evaluate collections for sale. Ask them about how they determine which books to pull out and individually grade and price. Ask them about which books they decide to bring as wall books. Ask them which books they prioritize sending into grading services to have graded & slabbed. Ask them which books are quick turnovers that keep the cash flow liquid versus those who sit for a while before they find buyers. Yes there will be a number of the old standards-Golden Age books, Silver Age keys, Bronze Age first issues, but just about everything else revolves around first appearances, especially those featuring characters-protagonists, villains or supporting characters, who are featured in or have been announced to feature in movies and television shows. That is the engine that is driving the back issue market now, and has been for over a decade now. It is the new normal, whether long-time collectors want to acknowledge it or not. -M |
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Post by codystarbuck on Apr 28, 2020 10:34:33 GMT -5
Economic theory pretty much fails to take into account human psychology. Stocks and other markets rise and fall based on belief in the companies and beliefe that a company is doing porrly, when it's fine, will lead to selling off stock, thereby choking cash flow to them, which can then put them in trouble. It was an irrational beliefs that led to actions that created the actual situations. Commodity markets are filled with examples, such as the whole Tulip Bulb trading in Europe, that nearly crippled their economies.
Collectible markets are filled with irrational behavior since value is based on things like nostalgia or some other emotional connection. The Beanie Baby fad was a perfect example. They sold these cute little toys at retail prices; then, suddenly, people noticed a few of them were harder to find and suddenly had to have them and started offering higher prices for them. Next thing you know, people are going crazy buying the stupid things. McDonald's did a Happy Meal promotion and people were chucking the food in the parking lot after they retrieved the toy. At B&N We were constantly getting calls asking if we carried the damn things. We didn't, then, though later would. Then they called asking for price guides. We could only find one, self-published, which was expensive and outdated, much like Overstreet. Then, a magazine publisher put out Beanie Baby World, with monthly price guides; but, the bottom finally fell out when too many people had bought them up and couldn't unload them. People left the market in droves and circulation of the magazine plummeted, bankrupting the publisher and taking a half dozen profitable magazines with it.
Comics are the same. People paid ridiculous prices for Spider-Man #1 and X-Force #1, despite sale being way above the actual readership of the title and the overall consistent audience in comics, at the time. Prices eventually dropped back down, once speculators had been cleaned out.
The internet has magnified the irrational behavior, much as it has magnified other irrational beliefs, like ridiculous conspiracy theories and snake oil medicines.
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Post by beccabear67 on Apr 28, 2020 12:52:19 GMT -5
What do old pulp magazines sell for now? Thirty years or so ago I remember reading about some high prices, now a lot of the people for whom pulps of the late '10s into the last gasp of the early '50s (before morphing into digests) are at best all really old and selling their treasures to younger people with less affection usually for the format, or even younger people with no idea of the heyday of the pulp fiction magazines.
I used to think we could see a day where all comic books are looked back on like the pulp magazines are, or how a rotary dial telephone almost is now. I think there have been enough comics read by actual kids still to avoid that though, but it's true it's not the mass medium it once was... and the movies are right now.
Other than that, if you want to make money over time, look for what is the most actually read but treated like junk and not collected. Maybe Sonic The Hedgehog in comics? Or something Japanese? For every hundred cases of mint superhero comic #1 there might be one case of something less obvious.
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Overstreet is a cool guide, but the prices in there are way too high and not in line with reality, or at least that used to be the case. I haven't looked at an Overstreet in decades. Ebay and the internet in general killed comic prices IMO and made it a buyer's market.