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Post by tartanphantom on May 14, 2020 14:19:17 GMT -5
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,222 
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Post by Confessor on May 14, 2020 14:43:44 GMT -5
And I thought Mars Attacks and the Civil War cards were pushing the envelope back in 1962. I think the Mars Attacks! cards still are pretty gruesome. |
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Post by Prince Hal on May 14, 2020 15:46:46 GMT -5
Both Ennis and Aaron served me well with comic violence in their runs of Punisher MAX. I make no apologies for liking some of my books to be grimy and gritty.
Yeah, I like grimy and gritty, too, but I don't equate those with sadistic torture porn. No apologies necessary. Wasn't looking for one. I like my reading to be ennobling, even if it's a comic. De gustibus, I guess. |
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Post by Prince Hal on May 14, 2020 15:47:47 GMT -5
And I thought Mars Attacks and the Civil War cards were pushing the envelope back in 1962. I think the Mars Attacks! cards still are pretty gruesome. Ditto. My point exactly. Of course, they were the outliers, not the norm. |
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2020 16:00:14 GMT -5
Man, I'm glad I bailed on comics before most of this stuff saw the light of day. Wasn't there a Joker story where he somehow slices off his own face or something?
Yes, Dollmaker did the honours in the relaunch of Detective Comics #1. The Joker was also ecstatic from the pain.
Not everyone's cup of tea but in some ways, it was milk and sugar in mine.
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Post by Prince Hal on May 14, 2020 16:17:19 GMT -5
Man, I'm glad I bailed on comics before most of this stuff saw the light of day. Wasn't there a Joker story where he somehow slices off his own face or something?
Yes, Dollmaker did the honours in the relaunch of Detective Comics #1. The Joker was also ecstatic from the pain.
Not everyone's cup of tea but in some ways, it was milk and sugar in mine.
Well, for me there's enough violence in the world that I don't have to seek it out, especially when it's exploitative of the reader. The less we satisfy our baser instincts, the better. |
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Post by electricmastro on May 14, 2020 16:25:18 GMT -5
Ah, does this mean non-DC/Marvel comics are allowed on here, pre-code ones even? |
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2020 17:22:19 GMT -5
Yes, Dollmaker did the honours in the relaunch of Detective Comics #1. The Joker was also ecstatic from the pain.
Not everyone's cup of tea but in some ways, it was milk and sugar in mine.
Well, for me there's enough violence in the world that I don't have to seek it out, especially when it's exploitative of the reader. The less we satisfy our baser instincts, the better. I agree. I read comics for escapism. I really don't to read explicit over the top violence. I also love when comics embrace the fantastic elements over so called realism. |
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2020 17:35:29 GMT -5
Well, for me there's enough violence in the world that I don't have to seek it out, especially when it's exploitative of the reader. The less we satisfy our baser instincts, the better. I agree. I read comics for escapism. I really don't to read explicit over the top violence. I also love when comics embrace the fantastic elements over so called realism. Depends what genre I am reading-if I am reading a hardcore noir crime comic, I am ok with a certain level of violence. Same with a war comic or a sword and sorcery comic, and even in some types of historical comics. I expect violent content in a horror comic too in most cases. With super-heroes, I could do without it for the most part. Super-heroes in and of themselves require a certain level of suspension of disbelief to work-there's no way someone of Superman's strength level can hit someone less than invulnerable and not break bones destroy organs, etc. no way a Hulk on a rampage isn't going to destroy lives as well as property, etc. and including that level or violence or realism basically destroys any possibility of telling heroic stories with those types of characters, and when I am reading super-HERO comics I am looking for heroic tales. If you are going to do an off-shoot project and examine what would super-heroes be like in a real world and include that level violence, that's all well and good and can be a good story, but it's not going to be a heroic story for the most part. I can like those types of stories for what they are, but it's not what I want out of heroic fiction. But again, people's mileage will vary. -M |
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2020 17:44:00 GMT -5
I agree. I read comics for escapism. I really don't to read explicit over the top violence. I also love when comics embrace the fantastic elements over so called realism. Depends what genre I am reading-if I am reading a hardcore noir crime comic, I am ok with a certain level of violence. Same with a war comic or a sword and sorcery comic, and even in some types of historical comics. I expect violent content in a horror comic too in most cases. With super-heroes, I could do without it for the most part. Super-heroes in and of themselves require a certain level of suspension of disbelief to work-there's no way someone of Superman's strength level can hit someone less than invulnerable and not break bones destroy organs, etc. no way a Hulk on a rampage isn't going to destroy lives as well as property, etc. and including that level or violence or realism basically destroys any possibility of telling heroic stories with those types of characters, and when I am reading super-HERO comics I am looking for heroic tales. If you are going to do an off-shoot project and examine what would super-heroes be like in a real world and include that level violence, that's all well and good and can be a good story, but it's not going to be a heroic story for the most part. I can like those types of stories for what they are, but it's not what I want out of heroic fiction. But again, people's mileage will vary. -M Totally agree. I find if violence is implied (say off panel) my mind fills in the scene. And certain genres like war comics should not be "sanitized". I also do enjoy some slightly "realistic" hero stories like the Authority or Supreme Power but only occasionally. |
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Post by Prince Hal on May 14, 2020 17:45:26 GMT -5
Well, for me there's enough violence in the world that I don't have to seek it out, especially when it's exploitative of the reader. The less we satisfy our baser instincts, the better. I agree. I read comics for escapism. I really don't to read explicit over the top violence. I also love when comics embrace the fantastic elements over so called realism. Right, although if I'm reading a war comic or a crime comic, I expect violence of a certain type. But to see a villain poke his fingers through the eyes of a character and push them through the back of his head just because we can now draw such an illustration/ No, thanks. It's a cheap trick that substitutes a reader's shock for actual emotion and lowers expectations of what storytellers can and should do. No one admires the Odyssey more than I, and no matter the translation, both the blinding of Polyphemus and the slaying of the suitors are violent moments, but told with such artistry that we cannot help being appalled and enthralled... and less enamored of violence. |
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2020 17:55:20 GMT -5
I know many feel the Comics Code Authority was a bad thing but in some ways I miss it. At first it was too strict but I wish modern creators would keep some of the ideas in mind. One of my problems with modern comics is the explicit violence. It's not needed. I remember Hugo Strange getting a beating in the Englehart/Rogers Batman stories and it was done in shadow to imply it. It was more powerful than if it had been shown in full detail. Modern movies and TV are guilty of this too.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2020 18:29:54 GMT -5
I know many feel the Comics Code Authority was a bad thing but in some ways I miss it. At first it was too strict but I wish modern creators would keep some of the ideas in mind. One of my problems with modern comics is the explicit violence. It's not needed.
Wiki says this about Stan Lee
Former Marvel president and chairman Stan Lee openly criticized the Max imprint. Referring to an incident of strangulation with intestines in the 2001 Fury miniseries, based on the character Nick Fury, whom he co-created, Lee said, "I don't know why they're doing that. I don't think that I would do those kinds of stories.
I liked that MAX Fury mini-series and still have it so I don't agree with Stan one bit and he was free to go write his Just Imagine series instead (which I thought was boring as hell). As long as books are clearly labelled that they're not intended for kids....I don't mind adult themes which include violence.
Bear in mind I like R-Rated action/horror films that push the envelope so when comics go that route, I'm not complaining.
I can understand others not appreciating it, so just stick to mainstream books. Simple as that.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2020 18:36:25 GMT -5
You misunderstand me. I have read violent comics like Supreme Power or the Authority. Sometimes I read them. However I don't want to read them all the time. As far as mainstream comics it has become commonplace there anymore. The Joker having his face cut off? The Sentry ripping Carnage and Ares in pieces? So you can't just escape it anymore.
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Post by Icctrombone on May 14, 2020 18:37:00 GMT -5
There was a John Byrne Alpha Flight book where a character with a sword cuts someone in pieces . It was yucky.
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