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Post by fanboystranger on Jun 17, 2014 18:00:56 GMT -5
Ennis grew up reading pretty much anything but American superhero fare (more 2000 AD or Battle Picture Weekly), and pretty much the whole of his career reflects this. Yeah, I guess if you don't encounter super heroes as a kid they seem completely absurd. Apparently his soft spot for Superman comes from reruns of the Reeves TV show that he watched as a kid, or am I confusing him with Millar in that? I think you may be confusing him with Millar, but Millar did read American superhero comics as a boy as they were available sporadically in Glasgow in the '70s. (Eddie Campbell actually did a great Alec strip about this and his fascination with what kind of bird Tomar-Re looked like. He could never get two consecutive issues, though.)
It's kinda interesting to me that the British creators that seem to have it out for superheroes-- Pat Mills, Ennis, Millar-- also claim to have a soft spot for Superman. I was reading an interview with Mills not too long ago, and he mentioned that he could never buy into truly heroic heroes motivated by nothing more than doing the right thing besides Superman. For some reason, he could believe in Superman's altruism, and that's what made Superman interesting to him. (Granted, he utterly savaged the archetype in the first Marshall Law series.)
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Post by berkley on Jun 17, 2014 19:06:42 GMT -5
I wonder what they thought of America itself at the time? One of the reasons Superman grates on me as a character is that I have a hard time separating either his over-the-top superpowers from American pride in its military supremacy or his selfless altruism from America's self-perceived moral superiority. Speaking culturally, of course: I'm not making a comment about individual Americans, many of whom share my distaste for all that.
OTOH, Captain America has never bothered me in the same way, so I can't claim to be consistent. Maybe it's because even though he shares Superman<s high moral stance, which can indeed be highly annoying at times, his superpowers were so relatively low-key that it allowed him to play the underdog role in a way Superman never could.
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Post by fanboystranger on Jun 17, 2014 19:25:13 GMT -5
I wonder what they thought of America itself at the time? One of the reasons Superman grates on me as a character is that I have a hard time separating either his over-the-top superpowers from American pride in its military supremacy or his selfless altruism from America's self-perceived moral superiority. Speaking culturally, of course: I'm not making a comment about individual Americans, many of whom share my distaste for all that. OTOH, Captain America has never bothered me in the same way, so I can't claim to be consistent. Maybe it's because even though he shares Superman<s high moral stance, which can indeed be highly annoying at times, his superpowers were so relatively low-key that it allowed him to play the underdog role in a way Superman never could. It's a good question. Mills, I suspect, has separated Superman the character from Superman the American symbol since, in general, he shows disdain for any type of authority. His Superman analogue in Marshall Law definitely riffs on the hypocricy of those in power and false displays of patriotism and religiousity to garner public support. That's why I was so struck when I read that Mills actually likes Superman as a concept.
Ennis' concept of Superman, I think, may be a bit more complicated, and it has to do with the Irish immigrant experience. There is an affinity in Ireland (even in N Ireland where he grew up) with the US, and it's common for young people just out of school to travel and work in the US for a few months. Ennis loves his American myths-- whether it be Westerns, war movies, the immigrant experience, etc-- but he definitely sees through them at the same time. I think he sees something of himself in Superman, being an immigrant and US citizen through marriage. I also think it gets back to one of Ennis' major themes, the idea of selfless friendship. Superman does the right thing because it's the right thing, not out of fear or the desire for popularity or gain. He's humanity's best friend, he looks out for us, and he's always there when we need him. In that wonderful issue of Hitman where Tommy talks to Superman on the roof, Superman has just failed to save some astronauts, and Tommy consoles him by pointing out that his trying against all odds to save them was what really mattered. The astronauts, frightened as they were, knew and understood that. They knew how many times Superman had saved the world before they even thought about getting into their ship.
Who knows with Millar? Pretty much everything he says is calculated to shock and draw attention to himself, so I doubt we'd ever get an honest answer from him.
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Post by dupersuper on Jun 17, 2014 21:00:08 GMT -5
Although I sold off my collection,there were a few more recent series I kept for future reading. This is one of them Is it any good?  I've enjoyed the 1st 2 trades: cool panel layout ideas. |
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Post by hondobrode on Jun 17, 2014 21:19:19 GMT -5
Has anyone tried Terminator: The Burning Earth? I'm a fan of the franchise and can't wait for Genesis next year. I'm interested in commentary on the art in this run as I heard Alex Ross won an award for it??
This series is mostly known for being, I believe, Alex Ross' first comic work. |
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Post by berkley on Jun 17, 2014 23:27:37 GMT -5
I wonder what they thought of America itself at the time? One of the reasons Superman grates on me as a character is that I have a hard time separating either his over-the-top superpowers from American pride in its military supremacy or his selfless altruism from America's self-perceived moral superiority. Speaking culturally, of course: I'm not making a comment about individual Americans, many of whom share my distaste for all that. OTOH, Captain America has never bothered me in the same way, so I can't claim to be consistent. Maybe it's because even though he shares Superman<s high moral stance, which can indeed be highly annoying at times, his superpowers were so relatively low-key that it allowed him to play the underdog role in a way Superman never could. It's a good question. Mills, I suspect, has separated Superman the character from Superman the American symbol since, in general, he shows disdain for any type of authority. His Superman analogue in Marshall Law definitely riffs on the hypocricy of those in power and false displays of patriotism and religiousity to garner public support. That's why I was so struck when I read that Mills actually likes Superman as a concept.
Ennis' concept of Superman, I think, may be a bit more complicated, and it has to do with the Irish immigrant experience. There is an affinity in Ireland (even in N Ireland where he grew up) with the US, and it's common for young people just out of school to travel and work in the US for a few months. Ennis loves his American myths-- whether it be Westerns, war movies, the immigrant experience, etc-- but he definitely sees through them at the same time. I think he sees something of himself in Superman, being an immigrant and US citizen through marriage. I also think it gets back to one of Ennis' major themes, the idea of selfless friendship. Superman does the right thing because it's the right thing, not out of fear or the desire for popularity or gain. He's humanity's best friend, he looks out for us, and he's always there when we need him. In that wonderful issue of Hitman where Tommy talks to Superman on the roof, Superman has just failed to save some astronauts, and Tommy consoles him by pointing out that his trying against all odds to save them was what really mattered. The astronauts, frightened as they were, knew and understood that. They knew how many times Superman had saved the world before they even thought about getting into their ship.
Who knows with Millar? Pretty much everything he says is calculated to shock and draw attention to himself, so I doubt we'd ever get an honest answer from him.
I think you've nailed it as far as Ennis is concerned - and he's the only one of the three I've read a fair bit of. The love for American mythology really comes through in Preacher - and is probably one of the reasons I don't rate it as highly as The Boys, where his cynical side is more to the fore. |
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Post by Jesse on Jun 21, 2014 4:17:33 GMT -5
What are peoples' thoughts on Brian Posehn's Deadpool series. I'm a fan of Brian Posehn's standup but I've never read a Deadpool series before. I picked up Deadpool Annual #2 because of the awesome David Nakayama artwork and also enjoyed the story. I'm wondering if the current series is worth reading in full.
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Post by DubipR on Jun 21, 2014 8:16:16 GMT -5
What are peoples' thoughts on Brian Posehn's Deadpool series. I'm a fan of Brian Posehn's standup but I've never read a Deadpool series before. I picked up Deadpool Annual #2 because of the awesome David Nakayama artwork and also enjoyed the story. I'm wondering if the current series is worth reading in full. I like the Posehn/Duggan run of Deadpool. The first arc where DP fights all of the resurrected Presidents is a lot of fun. And I highly recommend the 'flashback' issues drawn by Scott Koblish. Koblish nails all of the era perfectly and the stories are lots of fun. (and I'm not pimping those issues particularly since I'm a friend of Koblish) Give the first 12 issues a chance... |
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Post by Jesse on Jun 29, 2014 23:48:44 GMT -5
I heard good things about it but never read it in fact I haven't read much Peter Milligan at all. What are people's thoughts on the '90s run of Shade, the Changing Man?  |
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Jun 29, 2014 23:58:32 GMT -5
I liked Shade except for its final year or so.Then the art got worse (Richard Case) and the stories ran out of steam
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jun 30, 2014 0:08:02 GMT -5
I'm hot and frigid on Milligan. I liked Shade quite a bit for the first three years or so. But somewhere in there it ran out of steam.
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Post by Dizzy D on Jun 30, 2014 3:08:44 GMT -5
I don't think it ran out of steam, but the stories went in a very different direction, moving from superhero type stories to stories about the characters and general weirdness. A bit like what happened with Zot!
I still miss a few issues here and there, but I like the series a lot.
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ironchimp
Full Member
Simian Overlord
Posts: 456 
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Post by ironchimp on Jun 30, 2014 3:35:59 GMT -5
I just finished the first 24 issues and there were no superhero stories in those issues.
Dark and trippy,some really unsettling sexual encounters, and obviously written on a lot of drugs - i thought it was really original with some nice hooks to keep you coming back and lots of long form subplots.
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Post by Dizzy D on Jun 30, 2014 7:35:28 GMT -5
Compared to the ending, the first issues are pretty superhero: there is a superhero (Shade) and there is a supervillain (the American Scream) and some other villains running around. Of course, it's deeper than that and there's more going on, but compared to the later issues ("In this issue, Shade will be the floor of a ballet school.") the first issues are relatively straightforward.
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Post by hondobrode on Jun 30, 2014 7:59:17 GMT -5
Yeah, it got really weird in the later issues.
I was a huge Shade fan from Ditko and then the Vertigo version hit, which was a shock but, Vertigo ! right ?
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