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Post by brutalis on Jul 11, 2020 20:30:48 GMT -5
What If George Perez inherited artistic duties on Kirby comics after Jack left DC? Yes I know George can barely manage 1 let alone several but play the game & not let reality interfere I say! Keep whatever the writers were but Perez artwork making the issues even better? Imagine Perez doing:
New Gods, Mister Miracle, Forever People, Jimmy Olsen, Demon, Kamandi and Omac?!? OMG
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Post by Icctrombone on Jul 11, 2020 20:40:50 GMT -5
What If George Perez inherited artistic duties on Kirby comics after Jack left DC? Yes I know George can barely manage 1 let alone several but play the game & not let reality interfere I say! Keep whatever the writers were but Perez artwork making the issues even better? Imagine Perez doing: New Gods, Mister Miracle, Forever People, Jimmy Olsen, Demon, Kamandi and Omac?!? OMG That what if would have to include Perez being born earlier than he was. He was probably 10 when Kirby left the first time. |
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Post by brutalis on Jul 11, 2020 20:55:46 GMT -5
What If George Perez inherited artistic duties on Kirby comics after Jack left DC? Yes I know George can barely manage 1 let alone several but play the game & not let reality interfere I say! Keep whatever the writers were but Perez artwork making the issues even better? Imagine Perez doing: New Gods, Mister Miracle, Forever People, Jimmy Olsen, Demon, Kamandi and Omac?!? OMG That what if would have to include Perez being born earlier than he was. He was probably 10 when Kirby left the first time. I know. Suspend disbelief please. Dang brudder why you gotta toss cold water on my dream? LOL |
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Post by Icctrombone on Jul 11, 2020 20:58:39 GMT -5
That what if would have to include Perez being born earlier than he was. He was probably 10 when Kirby left the first time. I know. Suspend disbelief please. Dang brudder why you gotta toss cold water on my dream? LOL Okay, what if Shakespeare wrote the Avengers after Stan Lee left the title?  |
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Post by kirby101 on Jul 11, 2020 21:15:27 GMT -5
Perez was born in 54. Make of that what you will.
A cooler What If IMHO, is that Kirby left his DC books around the time Barry Smith left Conan. Now that would be something.
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Post by brutalis on Jul 11, 2020 21:26:52 GMT -5
I know. Suspend disbelief please. Dang brudder why you gotta toss cold water on my dream? LOL Okay, what if Shakespeare wrote the Avengers after Stan Lee left the title? He at least would have the chops for getting Thor's speech pattern right! 😉 |
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Post by berkley on Jul 11, 2020 23:50:26 GMT -5
Perez was born in 54. Make of that what you will. A cooler What If IMHO, is that Kirby left his DC books around the time Barry Smith left Conan. Now that would be something. Regardless of the practical improbability of it, I would like to have seen the George Perez of the 70s draw the New Gods. I think his style at that time would have looked great on characters like Orion, Barda, Mister Miracle. This is really the only reason I'm looking forward to reading that short JLA story he did a little later with some of the New Gods appearing - I think it might just fall within that period that I like, though I won't know for sure until I read them.
I thought Kirby did leave DC round the same time that BWS left Marvel but looking at Mike's Newsstand, I see that it was the New Gods books that were cancelled a few months before BWS's last issue of Conan. The Demon and Kamandi, etc kept going for quite a while longer, especially Kamandi which Kirby didn't leave until jusy a few months before the first issue of his return to Marvel. I still don't get the point of your What If, though - is it what if they had worked together in some fashion?
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Post by earl on Jul 11, 2020 23:56:20 GMT -5
Marshall Rogers and Mike Golden both did some comics with the Fourth World. There are a couple more amazing artists that never had the speed to really stay long on a monthly book.
It is totally mindblowing how many pages that someone like John Buscema could put out every month and no matter who inked the page, it pretty much worked. His style while perhaps not as detailed as Perez or Rogers etc, it isn't usually sparse either.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2020 23:58:37 GMT -5
Perez was born in 54. Make of that what you will. A cooler What If IMHO, is that Kirby left his DC books around the time Barry Smith left Conan. Now that would be something. Regardless of the practical improbability of it, I would like to have seen the George Perez of the 70s draw the New Gods. I think his style at that time would have looked great on characters like Orion, Barda, Mister Miracle. This is really the only reason I'm looking forward to reading that short JLA story he did a little later with some of the New Gods appearing - I think it might just fall within that period that I like, though I won't know for sure until I read them.
I thought Kirby did leave DC round the same time that BWS left Marvel but looking at Mike's Newsstand, I see that it was the New Gods books that were cancelled a few months before BWS's last issue of Conan. The Demon and Kamandi, etc kept going for quite a while longer, especially Kamandi which Kirby didn't leave until jusy a few months before the first issue of his return to Marvel. I still don't get the point of your What If, though - is it what if they had worked together in some fashion?
You do get to see Perez draw the Fourth World stuff in JLA 184 and 185 in 1980 when he took over mid-story for Dillin, who had passed away, doing parts 2 and 3 of the JLA/JSa x-over that year that featured Darkseid as the villain and the New Gods cast as supporting characters. Perez became the regular JLA penciller at that point. This was mid-to-late 1980, so just after that 70s Perez period, but when Perez was still in that mold stylistically.  -M |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2020 0:04:54 GMT -5
Here's a Perez page from #184 featuring Orion, unfortunately, it is Orion in the super-hero costume he got in the return of the New Gods stories by Conway and not the classic Orion look...  the splash for #185...  and a page featuring Barda and Granny...  just to give you a taste of Perez doing the Fourth World... -M |
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Post by berkley on Jul 12, 2020 0:43:26 GMT -5
Yeah, looking forward to that. The style is definitely close to my favourite Perez though here and there we might be seeing a few tentative signs of what was soon to come - WW looks a little slender and elongated in a couple panels and the expression on Barda's face doesn't quite come off, for me. I don't think McLaughlin's inks are as a good a match as some of the inkers he had at Marvel, either. Still, these are relatively minor quibbles and overall it looks very good.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2020 7:45:28 GMT -5
What if, in 1984-1985, DC decided to celebrate the 50th anniversary of DC by creating a new generation of iterations of their heroes much the way Julie Schwartz did in the Silver Age instead of merging worlds into one, essentially moved to a different earth for a new generation of their heroes, and in 2010-2011 did so again instead of Flashpoint/new52, essentially refurbishing things every 25 years or so. So the WWII era heroes essentially got retired and got moved to Earth2 and a new Earth 1 was created in the 1950s-1960s of the Silver Age. In 1985, the the Silver Age heroes would have been retired and things like Byrne' Superman and Perez's Wonder Woman could still take place but the Silver Age versions would still exist on another earth. And in 2010, those versions would be retired and replaced by things like the new52, but still exist on another earth.
Would fans have accepted it as they did the Golden Age Silver Age transition, or would there still have been the "not my version" reaction that characterized fandom reaction to both post-Crisis DC and the new52? Or was the Golden/Silver transition only accepted because for most fans it was already a fait accompli when they started reading and it was the status quo? Essentially would fans be more receptive to changes to the status quo if it was packaged differently, i.e. as part of a process that happens every quarter century or so to keep things fresh and new, or would they still resist changes to the way comics were when they discovered them even though they accepted changes that occurred before they entered the scene?
-M
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jul 13, 2020 8:52:25 GMT -5
What if, in 1984-1985, DC decided to celebrate the 50th anniversary of DC by creating a new generation of iterations of their heroes much the way Julie Schwartz did in the Silver Age instead of merging worlds into one, essentially moved to a different earth for a new generation of their heroes, and in 2010-2011 did so again instead of Flashpoint/new52, essentially refurbishing things every 25 years or so. So the WWII era heroes essentially got retired and got moved to Earth2 and a new Earth 1 was created in the 1950s-1960s of the Silver Age. In 1985, the the Silver Age heroes would have been retired and things like Byrne' Superman and Perez's Wonder Woman could still take place but the Silver Age versions would still exist on another earth. And in 2010, those versions would be retired and replaced by things like the new52, but still exist on another earth. Would fans have accepted it as they did the Golden Age Silver Age transition, or would there still have been the "not my version" reaction that characterized fandom reaction to both post-Crisis DC and the new52? Or was the Golden/Silver transition only accepted because for most fans it was already a fait accompli when they started reading and it was the status quo? Essentially would fans be more receptive to changes to the status quo if it was packaged differently, i.e. as part of a process that happens every quarter century or so to keep things fresh and new, or would they still resist changes to the way comics were when they discovered them even though they accepted changes that occurred before they entered the scene? It would have been such a better idea. Having our cake and eating it too, with no drawback whatsoever! Would fans have accepted it? I'm sure they would have, the same way the Ultimates universe or the Archie Legion were accepted by the readers... It all depends on whether the new iterations of the classic characters are interesting, and whether the stories told in the new mags are good. I'm sure no reader ever shied away from reading the more cartoony Batman Adventures because it wasn't about the "real" Batman; the concept of alternate versions of characters (and alternate universes) is ingrained in most superhero comics readers. Considering that comics were still pretty inexpensive back then, and that they didn't yet face massive competition from the video game market, such a strategy might even have translated as an increase in sales across the line. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2020 8:58:00 GMT -5
It would have been such a better idea. Having our cake and eating it too, with no drawback whatsoever! Would fans have accepted it? I'm sure it would have been, the same way the Ultimates universe or the Archie Legion were accepted by the readers... It all depends on whether the new iterations of the classic characters are interesting, and whether the stories told in the new mags are good. I'm sure no reader ever shied away from reading the more cartoony Batman Adventures because it wasn't about the "real" Batman; the concept of alternate versions of characters (and alternate universes) is ingrained in most superhero comics readers. Considering that comics were still pretty inexpensive back then, and that they didn't yet face massive competition from the video game market, such a strategy might even have translated as an increase in sales across the line. In most of the shops I frequented at the time, the owners complained they couldn't sell that book and most of the grumbling I heard was I won't read that, it's for kids or I want the real Batman stories, so you'd be surprised. I am sure it did well in places (and probably on the newsstands) but there was a significant resistance to that book among a lot of "hardcore" fans who didn't want to "waste their money" on a "fake kiddie Batman" book. While alternate versions may be ingrained in some readers, the DC animated line was dismissed by a lot of "true comic fans" as being beneath their notice, a symptom of the "not my (fill-in-the-blank) syndrome that plagues a lot of fandom and has lead to the idea that series/comics that "don't matter" aren't worth buying no matter what the quality of the story is. -M |
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Post by Prince Hal on Jul 13, 2020 9:10:14 GMT -5
It would have been such a better idea. Having our cake and eating it too, with no drawback whatsoever! Would fans have accepted it? I'm sure it would have been, the same way the Ultimates universe or the Archie Legion were accepted by the readers... It all depends on whether the new iterations of the classic characters are interesting, and whether the stories told in the new mags are good. I'm sure no reader ever shied away from reading the more cartoony Batman Adventures because it wasn't about the "real" Batman; the concept of alternate versions of characters (and alternate universes) is ingrained in most superhero comics readers. Considering that comics were still pretty inexpensive back then, and that they didn't yet face massive competition from the video game market, such a strategy might even have translated as an increase in sales across the line. In most of the shops I frequented at the time, the owners complained they couldn't sell that book and most of the grumbling I heard was I won't read that, it's for kids or I want the real Batman stories, so you'd be surprised. I am sure it did well in places (and probably on the newsstands) but there was a significant resistance to that book among a lot of "hardcore" fans who didn't want to "waste their money" on a "fake kiddie Batman" book. While alternate versions may be ingrained in some readers, the DC animated line was dismissed by a lot of "true comic fans" as being beneath their notice, a symptom of the "not my (fill-in-the-blank) syndrome that plagues a lot of fandom and has lead to the idea that series/comics that "don't matter" aren't worth buying no matter what the quality of the story is.-M This is really a shame, as many of those so-called "kiddie titles" were among the most imaginative comics DC put out. I bought them for my sons when they were young and always read and enjoyed them myself. They were a welcome breath of fresh air at a time that the super-hero genre was unrelentingly dull. As for DC sticking to the simplicity of creating successive new Earths and new heroes every 25 years, I defer to my younger self, who posted the passage below in 2016 and who agrees with you 100 percent: "Whenever questions of new versions, ret-cons, reboots, et al. come up, you realize just how simple and easy to understand DC's multiple Earths concept was. You like the Golden Age heroes? They're on Earth 2. You like the Silver Age? Try Earth 1. You want evil versions of your favorites? Welcome to Earth 3. And so on. Fewer continuity problems, the possibilities of #1 issues every few years, crossovers still can happen, characters can change and age... Now, I haven't bought a new DC or Marvel comic for a long time, but watching from afar, each universe seems like one big sloppy mess that even experienced comics fans find difficult to sort out. I had no trouble with multiple Earths and parallel universes when I first saw the JSA in JLA 29 when I was 10 years old. None. Nada. Now I look at what's happened and say WTF? If DC had been smart, they could have simply rebooted without the burdens and problems caused by Infinite Earths by starting a new line within a line of "Earth-Whatever" comics (John Byrne's Superman, a new JLA wiht Black Canary in the original line-up, whatever) and published Earth-1 and Earth-2 lines as popularity dictated. Hell, they have about forty different versions of Batman out now; how could it have been less confusing than that? Back in the mid-60s, now that I think of it, this may have been what DC was thinking of when they kept trying out Golden Age characters; had they been popular enough, obviously DC would have run a JSA comic or a Golden Age Flash comic, or whatever, just as they did with the Spectre. Those stories would have simply taken place on Earth-2. And all the DC Comics fans would have been able to follow them nicely, thanks. What really precipitated the COIE was that the industry had not suffered the kind of interruption that divided the Golden and Silver Ages, and the Silver Age had never officially ended, so now about 30 years' worth of continuity was beginning to stack up, and to make matters worse, the fans never seemed to move on as they had in years past. The Golden Age was, give or take, about 10 years long, continuity meant virtually nothing, and fans recycled every few years." |
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