shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,408
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Post by shaxper on Feb 14, 2021 23:24:54 GMT -5
Age of Apocalypse killed my interest in superhero books. The only thing I've read since then have been Vertigo books or independent titles. I started reading X-Men in '88 when the team were in Australia. I'm sure most of you had given up on the book by then, but that was the year I began collecting comics. I stuck with the book after they fired Claremont, and wasted my pocket money on Image, the Death of Superman, and all of the major early 90s events, but Age of Apocalypse was the killer. I stopped at X-Men #300. The cover price was insanely jacked up on account of one of the ugliest foil covers I'd ever seen, and the story within felt thoroughly unremarkable. THIS was the big 300th issue? I suddenly realized the X-Men franchise was out of ideas and had been for a long while, more obsessed with past glory days than moving towards anything exciting and new. In fact, I may have conflated several memories into one, but whenever I look back on that moment, I swear the next thing I did was go up to the check out counter and have the guy ask me how many copies of Turok: Dinosaur Hunter #1 I wanted to order because it was going to be the next hot thing. My interest in all modern comics died right then. I think I kept my pulls going for a few months after that, but I was no longer reading nor caring. And while I've gone back a few times since and checked out a few titles, it generally holds true that I don't care about superheroes after 1992. There's always time to do both. And if you do find anything exciting post-1992, I'd love to know about it since your experience and opinion seems to match mine so well on this topic. As for the classics, there are always more great classics to check out!
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Post by commond on Feb 15, 2021 7:27:05 GMT -5
I can't even remember what happened in #300 anymore. I remember being excited that JRJR was back on the title, but that didn't amount to much.
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,408
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Post by shaxper on Feb 15, 2021 9:28:06 GMT -5
I can't even remember what happened in #300 anymore. I think it was about the disciples of Magneto, but I'm honestly not sure, X-Men #100 pitted new team against old team (even if it proved to be a deception), X-Men #200 was the trial of Magneto, and X-Men #300 was...something? What a waste of an anniversary issue. Edit: Thorough summary of the issue here. More teasers of things to come than a meaningful/satisfying story in its own rite.
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Post by badwolf on Feb 15, 2021 11:10:24 GMT -5
It's very rare - almost never - that I find myself interested in modern superhero comics. Mostly they're doing the movie versions of the characters, and the movies do that better than the comics - even when the movie version is taken from the comics, e.g. Iron Man. I think largely because the movies, if they're well-cast, as the Marvel ones tend to be, can get by on star power and the talent and charisma of the actor, even if the writing is only so-so. Robert Downey makes the MCU Iron Man work because he's a talented entertainer who's fun to watch do his thing on the big screen. I was able to have a laugh at fat, out of shape, self-pitying Thor in the Avengers movie because the actor sold it to me with his performance - I very much doubt I'd enjoy reading the same character on the comic book page, though (not that they've done that in the comics, to my knowledge, just using it as a hypothetical). So yeah, if I'm going to read a superhero comic, it's almost certain to be an old one from the 60s or 70s; or possibly a new one from some independent publisher, though even that isn't likely. More likely than I'll read a new Marvel or DC superhero comic though, unless there's some specific interest involved - such as the new Eternals series, which I will probably read eventually because I'm always interested in how that concept is being handled when it's revived every 10 or 20 years or so. I got the hardcovers of Jason Aaron's Doctor Strange because I love Chris Bachalo's art (Kevin Nowlan's in there a bit too) & it was entertaining but it definitely wasn't the Strange I knew.
Still better than the screen Strange though.
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Post by Duragizer on Feb 16, 2021 3:33:37 GMT -5
Before Infinite Crisis, before Birthright, this is where the post- Crisis Superman truly died. I read this years after the fact, after the lunatics running the asylum had already completed their demolition, but it was still infuriating to see how the ball got rolling.
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Post by SJNeal on Feb 21, 2021 1:42:09 GMT -5
I can't even remember what happened in #300 anymore. I think it was about the disciples of Magneto, but I'm honestly not sure, X-Men #100 pitted new team against old team (even if it proved to be a deception), X-Men #200 was the trial of Magneto, and X-Men #300 was...something? What a waste of an anniversary issue. Edit: Thorough summary of the issue here. More teasers of things to come than a meaningful/satisfying story in its own rite. Yep, lots of set up for the rest of the events of 1993 (the big 30th anniversary year of both the X-Men and Avengers!). Even though I started buying Uncanny with #281, I didn't have easy access to an LCS and had to scour spinner racks every month to find my issues - which were inevitably damaged. When I finally set up a pull list, #300 was the first issue I picked up from the shop, and in pristine condition! Yes, I was appalled at the $3.95 price tag, but at least the spine wasn't cracked! Believe it or not, it was Alan Davis that drove me from the X-titles for the first time. The sloppy transition from Seagle and Kelly was a huge turn off, and it seemed like I didn't recognize the books overnight. I came back for Claremont's "Revolution" era a couple years later, and while it wasn't stellar quality, I stuck with both titles until their respective ends.
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Post by SJNeal on Feb 21, 2021 1:45:40 GMT -5
I can't even remember what happened in #300 anymore. I remember being excited that JRJR was back on the title, but that didn't amount to much. JRJr's short return to UXM (#300-311) might be the last time I really liked his work. He did some nice stuff on Spider-Man years later, but I credit the inker and colorist for saving it. But it's been a good 20 yrs that he's slowly gone downhill; his pencils on Bendis' Action Comics run were downright offensive.
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Post by Ricky Jackson on Feb 21, 2021 18:56:30 GMT -5
Back in the 80s during my childhood fandom I was a major Spider-Man fan. My love of the character through reruns of the 60s cartoon and different toys hooked me on comics in the first place. I particularly loved Amazing in the 80s, first Stern/Romita and then DeFalco/Frenz. Suddenly with, I believe, #285, DeFalco and (much more importantly to 10-year old me, who cared mostly about a consistent LOOK to the comic) Frenz were gone, just as a major storyline was starting and several years of subplots and character development were heating to a boil. The art was musical chairs for the next year before MacFarlane took over, the Hobgoblin story was rushed to what even as a kid felt like an unsatisfactory conclusion, Peter suddenly proposes to MJ, and I'm just wondering what the heck happened to the book I loved. I stuck around to McFarlane but I was too young to find his art "cool" and abandoned the book shortly after #300. Of course, by the summer of 89 I was 12 and hopelessly into all the cool characters and artists and started collecting the book again (my usual good taste abandoned me for a lot of the 90s lol), but it was never the same as my unconditional love for Spidey, and Amazing, in the 80s
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Post by profh0011 on Feb 21, 2021 23:30:43 GMT -5
I suddenly realized the X-Men franchise was out of ideas and had been for a long while, more obsessed with past glory days than moving towards anything exciting and new. When I look back on it, I'm not sure I EVER really liked the X-MEN revival. It was ALWAYS more intense and serious, almost psychotically so, than it needed to be, and to possibly be actually "entertaining". The villains all seemed more concerned with making the lives of the heroes a LIVING HELL than they did any actual criminal goals or plans or schemes. And NONE of them ever were brought to justice, not one of them ever saw jail time. They just kept escaping certain death again and again (like a thousand Joker clones), so they could KEEP coming back again and again and again.
A couple years ago, I was shocked when I re-read "The Dark Phoenix Saga" in a TPB reprint collection. This is often thought of as the all-time high popint of the series. And reading it now, decades later... it felt like CRAP from start to finish. The stories, the art, the dialogue... ALL of it. Has my tastes changed that much... or was I just putting up with more than I should have back then?
Truthfully, the only thing that ever got me interested in the first place was Dave Cockrum's art. Somehow, the John Byrne-Terry Austin team (who worked so well on that one-and-only STAR-LORD story) did manage to grow on me... or maybe I just got used to it. I was happy when Dave came back. Paul Smith, who took over right in the middle of an INTERMINABLY awful story, was at least okay. But when he left... I have no idea why I kept buying for so long after that. J.R. Jr. & Dan Green did some of the worst, ugliest art I'd ever seen at that time. And the guys who followed them were even worse...
I remember many years back shaking my head when I'd read comments from fans who'd say that X-MEN had gotten really bad and they couldn't take it anymore. And I'd think... yeah... but I felt that way TEN YEARS or more earlier than they did.
What blows my mind is how much I liked the first 2 X-MEN movies. I think they really made the comics look bad-- by comparison.
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Post by Duragizer on Feb 22, 2021 1:12:52 GMT -5
I can't even remember what happened in #300 anymore. I remember being excited that JRJR was back on the title, but that didn't amount to much. JRJr's short return to UXM (#300-311) might be the last time I really liked his work. He did some nice stuff on Spider-Man years later, but I credit the inker and colorist for saving it. But it's been a good 20 yrs that he's slowly gone downhill; his pencils on Bendis' Action Comics run were downright offensive. Last year, I read the first two issues of Superman: Year One. All the kids were drawn like boobleheads.
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Post by mikelmidnight on Feb 22, 2021 12:31:50 GMT -5
A couple years ago, I was shocked when I re-read "The Dark Phoenix Saga" in a TPB reprint collection. This is often thought of as the all-time high popint of the series. And reading it now, decades later... it felt like CRAP from start to finish. The stories, the art, the dialogue... ALL of it. Has my tastes changed that much... or was I just putting up with more than I should have back then? Truthfully, the only thing that ever got me interested in the first place was Dave Cockrum's art. Somehow, the John Byrne-Terry Austin team (who worked so well on that one-and-only STAR-LORD story) did manage to grow on me... or maybe I just got used to it. I was happy when Dave came back. Paul Smith, who took over right in the middle of an INTERMINABLY awful story, was at least okay. But when he left... I have no idea why I kept buying for so long after that. J.R. Jr. & Dan Green did some of the worst, ugliest art I'd ever seen at that time. And the guys who followed them were even worse...
I haven't read the issues in decades, but while there are certainly problematic aspects to the story, and while it's true storytelling techniques have changed, I certainly enjoyed the Claremont/Byrne issues when they came out.
I enjoyed Cockrum's art and loved Paul Smith's, but when Smith left, I left. Romita Jr's artwork was completely inappropriate for the slick style that the title had come to stand by, and from reading a friend's copies it seemed the series became only more depressing (to a point of nihilism) after that point, so I'm glad I left when I did.
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Post by commond on Feb 22, 2021 20:07:22 GMT -5
Back in the 80s during my childhood fandom I was a major Spider-Man fan. My love of the character through reruns of the 60s cartoon and different toys hooked me on comics in the first place. I particularly loved Amazing in the 80s, first Stern/Romita and then DeFalco/Frenz. Suddenly with, I believe, #285, DeFalco and (much more importantly to 10-year old me, who cared mostly about a consistent LOOK to the comic) Frenz were gone, just as a major storyline was starting and several years of subplots and character development were heating to a boil. The art was musical chairs for the next year before MacFarlane took over, the Hobgoblin story was rushed to what even as a kid felt like an unsatisfactory conclusion, Peter suddenly proposes to MJ, and I'm just wondering what the heck happened to the book I loved. I stuck around to McFarlane but I was too young to find his art "cool" and abandoned the book shortly after #300. Of course, by the summer of 89 I was 12 and hopelessly into all the cool characters and artists and started collecting the book again (my usual good taste abandoned me for a lot of the 90s lol), but it was never the same as my unconditional love for Spidey, and Amazing, in the 80s The conclusion to the Hobgoblin saga was one of the biggest disappointments of that era. Hobgoblin was one of the best villains they'd created in a long time and they completely botched it. I tapped out on Spider-Man around the time his parents returned, though I've subsequently discovered that J. M. DeMatteis was doing some pretty good stuff on Spectacular. I keep meaning to read Amazing #400 one of these days.
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Post by commond on Feb 22, 2021 20:12:13 GMT -5
I can't even remember what happened in #300 anymore. I remember being excited that JRJR was back on the title, but that didn't amount to much. JRJr's short return to UXM (#300-311) might be the last time I really liked his work. He did some nice stuff on Spider-Man years later, but I credit the inker and colorist for saving it. But it's been a good 20 yrs that he's slowly gone downhill; his pencils on Bendis' Action Comics run were downright offensive. Wasn't Uncanny write around the time that he was doing Man Without Fear? I really liked his run on Daredevil as a kid. His Thor stuff intrigued has always intrigued me from afar. As a former X-Men fan, I always wonder if I should read the Morrison run.
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Post by Ricky Jackson on Feb 22, 2021 20:32:07 GMT -5
Back in the 80s during my childhood fandom I was a major Spider-Man fan. My love of the character through reruns of the 60s cartoon and different toys hooked me on comics in the first place. I particularly loved Amazing in the 80s, first Stern/Romita and then DeFalco/Frenz. Suddenly with, I believe, #285, DeFalco and (much more importantly to 10-year old me, who cared mostly about a consistent LOOK to the comic) Frenz were gone, just as a major storyline was starting and several years of subplots and character development were heating to a boil. The art was musical chairs for the next year before MacFarlane took over, the Hobgoblin story was rushed to what even as a kid felt like an unsatisfactory conclusion, Peter suddenly proposes to MJ, and I'm just wondering what the heck happened to the book I loved. I stuck around to McFarlane but I was too young to find his art "cool" and abandoned the book shortly after #300. Of course, by the summer of 89 I was 12 and hopelessly into all the cool characters and artists and started collecting the book again (my usual good taste abandoned me for a lot of the 90s lol), but it was never the same as my unconditional love for Spidey, and Amazing, in the 80s The conclusion to the Hobgoblin saga was one of the biggest disappointments of that era. Hobgoblin was one of the best villains they'd created in a long time and they completely botched it. I tapped out on Spider-Man around the time his parents returned, though I've subsequently discovered that J. M. DeMatteis was doing some pretty good stuff on Spectacular. I keep meaning to read Amazing #400 one of these days. It's been years, but I remember #400 being great. I actually collected the ENTIRE clone saga around 1999-2000, long after it was established as junk, mostly because I was flush with $ but still not weighed down with responsibility (ie. I had a job but was still living in my parents basement rent free). I shudder to think how much that cost, there must've been like 60+ books counting all the extra stuff! Insanity.
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Post by The Captain on Feb 22, 2021 20:36:23 GMT -5
JRJr's short return to UXM (#300-311) might be the last time I really liked his work. He did some nice stuff on Spider-Man years later, but I credit the inker and colorist for saving it. But it's been a good 20 yrs that he's slowly gone downhill; his pencils on Bendis' Action Comics run were downright offensive. Wasn't Uncanny write around the time that he was doing Man Without Fear? I really liked his run on Daredevil as a kid. His Thor stuff intrigued has always intrigued me from afar. As a former X-Men fan, I always wonder if I should read the Morrison run. The Morrison run is OK. Some of it is interesting, like the Quentin Quire issues, the mystery of "who murdered Emma Frost", and some of the fleshing out of the Weapon Plus program. However, it also includes the introduction and arc of Xorn, which is a serious black eye on the X-franchise. These issues fit neatly into this whole "Run Ruiner" discussion.
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