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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Jul 22, 2014 14:18:19 GMT -5
thats how cool rob liefeld is "they bring me brand spanking new pouches and I sign or draw on them" you'd never hear John Byrne saying "they bring me deformed children or bizarre looking women and i sign or draw on them" This made me LOL. Cause it's true. |
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Post by Jesse on Aug 15, 2014 20:06:55 GMT -5
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Post by Pharozonk on Aug 15, 2014 20:19:30 GMT -5
For all the hate people throw his way, I got to give Liefeld credit for just rolling with the punches and doing what he loves.
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Post by Nowhere Man on Aug 16, 2014 2:01:26 GMT -5
If I could bring one classic creator back to the future, and create an app for him, it would be the late great Artie Simek. In addition to the expected "Ask Artie" section, I'd add a special "Artie's Rage" section that would delve deep into the psychosis of a man who spent years enduring the constant taunts and insults from Stan Lee on the printed page. If I were in charge of design for the Liefeld app, I'd expand it to better reflect the interest's of this most profound creative mind. I'd add sections like "My Favorite Crayon's" and "The Bible and Me: Extreme Cliff Note Edition." |
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Aug 28, 2015 13:23:35 GMT -5
Hello there. Total newbie, but no comics newbie. I hail from France and live in Sweden, and have weekly bought US comics since 92 even if I've read comics in general all my life. I started out with comics at that same time those Image guys were at their apex, but my reasoning for embracing anglo saxon comics initialy & solely had to do with Vertigo and 2000 AD. That being said, I was always quite aware of the ultra "commercial" stuff. Which is why I've always been quite intrigued by the fact Kevin Nowlan never is mentioned as a potential influence to some of those guys, especially Jim Lee. Looking at the Outsiders Annual from 1986, a lot of Nowlan's stuff in it just looks like what Lee would love to look like. A lot of his Marvel cover work from same area obviously had an impact on Jae Lee's early stuff as well (Namor)     |
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Aug 28, 2015 13:51:44 GMT -5
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Sept 7, 2015 9:59:22 GMT -5
I can see Nowlan in Jae Lee, which I guess in my opinion, is all the bad of Nowlan, as I quite like his art (and was the whole reason I read those Defenders issues) but I have found Jae Lee's too extreme for my tastes. Much like Sam Keith. Isn't his first name Sam? Maxx creator.
Anyways, never really thought much on Jim Lee being influenced by Nowlan. I started reading comics in the 90's so all these guys influences being compared are all hindsight for me. I can see some in those examples with Jim Lee's work but Lee seems much more polished than Nowlan in the end. I'd almost say Lee has his own formula and perhaps subconsciously emulated those work he admired.
I will agree with your final analyze of Silverstri. I haven't read any new comics since 2010 or so but I enjoy old Silverstri. Particularly his work in Uncanny X-Men and more specifically the Brood. I also enjoyed Devil's Reign. I think he did the Silver Surfer issue. I think he was one of goods ones for my tastes along with Jim Lee. Though things like Hush are actually some of his best artwork in my opinion.
Liefield's Shatterstar mini from 2005 or so, I think, was as serviceable as some other more well known writers/artists that get lazy just riding their own coat tails.
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Sept 7, 2015 11:48:37 GMT -5
I love Sam Keith!!!  I used to collect every single thing he did (still do I think...), But indeed, he was always quite cartoony. But those Marvel Comics Presents and Batman covers... My my my. I'd pay serious money for an original of those.If you haven't read any new comics since 2010, you might be very pleasently surprised by Jae Lee's evolution as he turned out as a Norman Rockwell fan, and his work is now very minimalistic and clean. And he really is one who got his career thanks to good ole Rob!     When you consider he started out as an artist with Liefield like techniques wwho wanted to be Simon Bisley, he turned out great! ![]()  Even though in the process, he looked like Druillet, Heavy Metal years  Anyways, I really think that Jim Lee did try to learn some tricks from Nowlan (eyes, eyebrows, hair, clothing, woman bust, etc...), and too often, his "dressed" thugs looked like Nowlan typical figure. And Wildstorm has actually hired Nowlan on many occasions since its inception. I'm not saying Lee's style is trying to mimic Nowlans, just that on many occasions, especially when lee did produce a good drawing, you can see some Nowlan tricks and tropes. After all, they rose at the same time. And I too share your feeling that the comparison isn't in Nowlan's advantage, hahaha. If you think about it though, there are plenty of currently professionnal artists who rose thanks to Liefeld and Lee. |
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Sept 7, 2015 14:30:37 GMT -5
Lol I had quite the opposite reaction to Keith's art. I remember buying an Aliens title as a back issue (bag & boarded already) with John Bolton covers but not his interior art. To be fair to Keith there probably isn't many artist that would differ in the comparison to Bolton.
That current Jae Lee art is quite different from what I remember his. He certainly has changed. Looking back I'm not quite sure what Jae Lee had that say Texeria had, whose art I don't mind (really liked Union) but don't actively seek out, but they are really similar.
To me, and to the point of the thread, I think what Lee, Liefield and McFarlane did to comics is what TV/movies produced by Marvel and DC are doing now ... expanding the audience. Exposure. No whether their efforts were for the better in the end is always an ongoing debate. But they did give the industry more exposure along with the help of animated shows like X-Men, Spider-Man and Batman. Maybe we could debate without them and the 90s exposure would we have the industry we have now? And by extension would we be enjoying the movie explosion we are now?
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Sept 7, 2015 15:17:58 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2015 15:20:39 GMT -5
Arthur Gordon Scratch - Thanks for sharing all those pictures on this thread. Nicely Laid Out!
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Sept 7, 2015 15:32:41 GMT -5
I have a theory for Rob's popularity though : his style was the easiest to mimic by under 1é years old kids. So I really believe you got a whole generation who learned the craft through him and grew into fans, artists or just current audience of those movies.
So even more than expanding the audience (which they probably did too even if I believe they are mostly responsible for the male audience predominance that we've been fighting for 20 years), I think they helped build a couple of generations into hardcore and commited fans of the medium, the foundation of what we have now.
FOr years I remember being labeled as a geek and ridiculed in France by my hipster friends while they saw me read Peter David's Supergirl or 2000AD, until comics and "graphic Novels" became socially acceptble once again. Then, I could serve as foundations for their own exploration of the medium, also because they recognised me as one of their peers in other areas of culture such as music, books and movies. But I truely believe that if us comic book fans only were able to talk about Kirby, Wood, Davis, Toth, Schomburg, Ditko, Adams, Barks, or even Byrne for the matter, a sorely missing gap would remain between newbies and us. But because we know, aknowledge and still reflect upon those early 90ies Image crimes and their place in history, it makes for a better narrative in history and an ease that helps the medium grow.
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Sept 7, 2015 15:44:02 GMT -5
Arthur Gordon Scratch - Thanks for sharing all those pictures on this thread. Nicely Laid Out! You're most welcome. I just appreciate to look at the big picture, as I believe you guys do as well. Why would we else be debating Rob Liefield for?!  In the early naughties, I confess I lost a little interest in comics, but not in the medium. So instead of reading as many monthlies, I started to read about the history of the industry through various publications such as the Comic Journal, COmic Book ARtist, various, books about specific topics, anecdotal or not. And I got a lot of enjoyment from that side of comic books. So even if I basicaly borderline hate Jim Lee's art, I'm quite happy I'm very familiar with it, with where it comes from, why it was so influential, what's the best of his and what's the worst, how he helped many artists come to maturity while working as professionnals, all of that because it helps me understand what's current and anticipate what might come. Which makes me think : maybe what I see of Nowlan in Jim Lee is more obvious in Charest, who'd therefore be the culmination of both :   |
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Sept 7, 2015 17:42:09 GMT -5
Arthur you posting that cover of Wildcats and Darkstars reminded me that if there's no other reason for the 90's it was for Travis Charest getting in the industry. His art is amazing. I'll have more to post on topic to your points when I'm a bit more sober lol. Wildcats #18 was where I started the series thanks to Charest's Voodoo. :-)
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Sept 7, 2015 18:06:45 GMT -5
Yeah, I think the first superhero Image comic I bought also was an early Charest WildCATS issue, probably #25. When #18 hit the stores, as most of us, I was floored! What the hell did Jim Lee think??? He chose a guy to fill in for him htat would instantly render him obsolete! But pretty pictures is one thing, I still had to wait and see if Alan Moore would stick around before buying my first issue as I was younger and 90% focused on story in my buying. I guess Charest never had a great story to draw, if he had, he'd probably have become the biggest super star of modern comic book days. I'm blessed in that I got to meet him when he lived in Paris and he drew me a Judge Dredd Sketch with colors |
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