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Post by Reptisaurus! on Oct 24, 2014 16:37:29 GMT -5
The first time i read Annihilation I loved it, but when I re-read it, it didnt seem to make any sense what was the point in the girl? and how was Drax able to plough into the heart of that huge fleet and board Annihilus's ship when he wasn't able to do anything like that before? (or did i miss something?) I always though of Cammi as Drax's anchor. If you haven't read the mini series, they meet in a plausible (as in if they were all just humans, the events would be fairly similar) scenario, where she befriends Drax out of an ulterior motive, and Drax allows her along because he won't admit an ulterior motive, other than "for her own safety". She seems to be the human conscience for Drax, as I see it. And to do the traitional side-kick jobs; give the hero someone to give exposition too, act as an audiencel POV character.... But if you haven't read the Drax mini-series (which was really good, so you should) her presence probably doesn't make much sense. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Oct 24, 2014 17:04:18 GMT -5
Is it just me that think Starlin just retreads the same one story over and over and over and over and over again? No, I'm with you. It's been pretty much the same story with some cosmetic changes for most of the past twenty years. That said, I have not read the recent Thanos OGN yet, so that may be different. What is the same story that Starlin keeps telling? I'm a big fan and his money maker is stories set in space with big power players. |
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Roquefort Raider
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Oct 24, 2014 20:29:28 GMT -5
The first time i read Annihilation I loved it, but when I re-read it, it didnt seem to make any sense what was the point in the girl? and how was Drax able to plough into the heart of that huge fleet and board Annihilus's ship when he wasn't able to do anything like that before? (or did i miss something?) I always though of Cammi as Drax's anchor. Yes, he even calls her "Heather" at one point, when he's semi-delirious. |
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Post by berkley on Oct 24, 2014 21:58:54 GMT -5
I can't agree about that Cammi. I read the miniseries where she made what seemed to be her first appearance and found her exactly the kind of annoying brat that seems to be so inexplicably popular in American pop culture.
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Post by earl on Oct 24, 2014 22:42:39 GMT -5
I thought the prelude Drax mini-series written by Keith Giffen was maybe the best part of Annihilation. That would be a good plot for a science fiction movie on it's own.
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Post by fanboystranger on Oct 25, 2014 8:59:15 GMT -5
No, I'm with you. It's been pretty much the same story with some cosmetic changes for most of the past twenty years. That said, I have not read the recent Thanos OGN yet, so that may be different. What is the same story that Starlin keeps telling? I'm a big fan and his money maker is stories set in space with big power players. A small group of rebels/chosen battling against a corrupted, dogmatic authority (usually religious in nature) in space, often with a philosophical underpinning centered on the dichotomy between life and death. Generally featuring the guy discovering his true power, the sage who knows more than he lets on, the comic relief character, and the butt-kicking female.
It was groundbreaking in the '70s, still pretty vital in the '80s, but every time he's returned to it over the past twenty-some years, it's felt more and more like Starlin-by-numbers.
Bear in mind that I wouldn't have such a visceral distaste for it if I weren't such a huge Starlin fan to begin with.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2014 12:22:46 GMT -5
What is the same story that Starlin keeps telling? I'm a big fan and his money maker is stories set in space with big power players. A small group of rebels/chosen battling against a corrupted, dogmatic authority (usually religious in nature) in space, often with a philosophical underpinning centered on the dichotomy between life and death. Generally featuring the guy discovering his true power, the sage who knows more than he lets on, the comic relief character, and the butt-kicking female.
It was groundbreaking in the '70s, still pretty vital in the '80s, but every time he's returned to it over the past twenty-some years, it's felt more and more like Starlin-by-numbers.
Bear in mind that I wouldn't have such a visceral distaste for it if I weren't such a huge Starlin fan to begin with.
It's also almost a casebook case of the hero's journey as outlined by Joseph Campbell that reoccurs in most myths and was captured on film by George Lucas in the first Star Wars film. It's pretty archetypical structure for a story, and Starlin seems to be reusing the archetype with a new coat of paint quite often, but then I find writers like Ennis, Azzarello and others everyone lauds telling the same stories (in that same thematic archetypical sense) over and over with different characters each time too, they just haven't been doing it as long and returning to the original set of characters to do it again making it more obvious like Starlin has. -M |
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Post by ironchimp on Oct 26, 2014 4:20:17 GMT -5
I always though of Cammi as Drax's anchor. If you haven't read the mini series, they meet in a plausible (as in if they were all just humans, the events would be fairly similar) scenario, where she befriends Drax out of an ulterior motive, and Drax allows her along because he won't admit an ulterior motive, other than "for her own safety". She seems to be the human conscience for Drax, as I see it. And to do the traitional side-kick jobs; give the hero someone to give exposition too, act as an audiencel POV character.... But if you haven't read the Drax mini-series (which was really good, so you should) her presence probably doesn't make much sense. Yes I agree with all of that. I did read the Drax mini where they met and she definitely added a bit of warmth and colour to him and she was quite a cute character herself. But as the story went on she just seemed like clutter, especially when they were in the war zones. I'd forgotten she was a reminder of his own daughter tho. But then I kind of agree with Berk's summary too. No wonder I was confused - I obviously had a lot of contradictory feelings about her in that story! |
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Post by ironchimp on Oct 26, 2014 4:41:37 GMT -5
As for Drax's suddenly increased abilities, I chalk it up to the writer's enthusiasm and the usual stretching of plausibility that often comes with the territory. Perhaps he's like the Hulk, and his powers increase in proportion to his nearness to Thanos? (I'm just making stuff up here; I don't think much thinking went into it. It's a bit like Wolverine's healing factor that some days require weeks for him to heal from a stab wound, and that some other day regrow his entire body from a skeleton in seconds). Yeah I hadn't read a comic for about 10 years when I read Annihilation so I'd forgotten one of the golden rules of comics. How can x suddenly do y = because its comics. Galactus as a weapon (even if i never really like to see him defeated ever) was awesome after being away from comics so long and there was a ton of things to like about that series. It's a shame Giffen isn't more popular these days as everything I've read by him has at worst been good - he's very adept at the grand spectacle and keeps things moving along at a nice zippy pace. |
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Post by Nowhere Man on Oct 26, 2014 8:12:13 GMT -5
It's been 7 years since I read Annihilation, but wasn't Drax depowered during that storyline from his "space Hulk" incarnation of the early 90's?
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Post by Icctrombone on Oct 26, 2014 9:30:18 GMT -5
What is the same story that Starlin keeps telling? I'm a big fan and his money maker is stories set in space with big power players. A small group of rebels/chosen battling against a corrupted, dogmatic authority (usually religious in nature) in space, often with a philosophical underpinning centered on the dichotomy between life and death. Generally featuring the guy discovering his true power, the sage who knows more than he lets on, the comic relief character, and the butt-kicking female.
It was groundbreaking in the '70s, still pretty vital in the '80s, but every time he's returned to it over the past twenty-some years, it's felt more and more like Starlin-by-numbers.
Bear in mind that I wouldn't have such a visceral distaste for it if I weren't such a huge Starlin fan to begin with.
I see that theme in The Warlock battle against the Magus but he wasn't fighting an authority, as much as he was fighting what he would become. That theme is the central theme to the Dreadstar story. I don't really see that story anywhere else. IG had all the heroes trying to take down Thanos once he acquired the Cubes. There are only so many stories writers can use. It's always going to be David vs. Goliath. |
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Post by fanboystranger on Oct 26, 2014 10:26:46 GMT -5
A small group of rebels/chosen battling against a corrupted, dogmatic authority (usually religious in nature) in space, often with a philosophical underpinning centered on the dichotomy between life and death. Generally featuring the guy discovering his true power, the sage who knows more than he lets on, the comic relief character, and the butt-kicking female.
It was groundbreaking in the '70s, still pretty vital in the '80s, but every time he's returned to it over the past twenty-some years, it's felt more and more like Starlin-by-numbers.
Bear in mind that I wouldn't have such a visceral distaste for it if I weren't such a huge Starlin fan to begin with.
I see that theme in The Warlock battle against the Magus but he wasn't fighting an authority, as much as he was fighting what he would become. That theme is the central theme to the Dreadstar story. I don't really see that story anywhere else. IG had all the heroes trying to take down Thanos once he acquired the Cubes. There are only so many stories writers can use. It's always going to be David vs. Goliath. Infinity Crusade, Cosmic Guard/Kid Kosmos, Mystery in Space, Rann-Thanagar: Holy War off the top of my head.
I should clarify my earlier statement: It's not that Starlin's major reoccuring themes are not viable, but they have become less and less effective each time he returns to them. If he were to come up with a different, more imaginative way to explore them, I'd be very happy, but it's become the same thing over and over again with different characters and diminishing returns. I'd like to see him attempt something different because his work has become very stale to me. He seems very pidgeon-holed over the past decade, and for someone as significant to the industry as Starlin, that's kinda sad. It's not like doesn't have the ability to try something different. Perhaps he doesn't have the opportunity, but then again, his creator-owned work followed the same path.
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Post by Icctrombone on Oct 26, 2014 11:17:41 GMT -5
I see your point but the public likes the same thing over and over. Deniro playing a gangster was repetitive but it always brought people into the theaters. Jim Carey playing an out of control nut job was also the same thing but people want to see it. Starlin has characters transform during the story because , when they do, the can meet the challenge of a mightier opponent. Maybe I sound like an apologist but I love Starlins stuff.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Oct 26, 2014 11:26:46 GMT -5
I see your point but the public likes the same thing over and over. That is unfortunately very true, and it is ironic that much of the public complains about things never changing... while sticking to endless rehashes of old things. I was very depressed when I first realized that the science-fiction section of my local bookstore mostly consisted of shelves and shelves of derivative material (TV series, computer games and role-playing stuff). Especially damning were alien vs predators novels, which are essentially books derived from a computer game derived from a film franchise derived from a comic-book derived from two separate movie series. "We want new stuff!" says Joe Public. Yeah, right. |
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Oct 26, 2014 11:43:41 GMT -5
There shouldn't back anything wrong or defective about a source of entertainment offering the same concept if you like it. Starlin is good at killing characters, timelines and universes. Marvel and DC have used him as comic writing mercenary. It's not a surprise his own work reflects the same concepts. I don't think it's a defect in his work anymore than I do AC/DCs music. If what they do is what they do good, then let em do it.
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