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Post by pinkfloydsound17 on Oct 21, 2014 21:10:42 GMT -5
I was going to post this in the series recommendation thread but I wanted a real big consensus. Generally, I don't read newer stuff and anything from 1995 until now, I am quite oblivious to. In the past year though, I have started reading some newer stuff (Batman Hush, some of the new 52 series, etc). With Marvel heading towards doing something related to Civil War, I wanted to know from you guys (because you are all true critics and fans) whether or not the series is worth the read.
Obviously, I know it is a mega ordeal that touched every series at the time. But I was focusing on just reading the actual 7 issues from the Civil War title (and any others you guys may recommend). Basically, is it worth the read? Is it any bit interesting? Is the artwork decent? What are the highs and lows? Is it worthy movie material?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2014 21:27:13 GMT -5
If you like reading stories where every major characters ignores their established personality and ideals to serve the writer's big idea plot, then you might like it. However, I think Millar is a terrible writer with no regard for the sandbox he is playing in or anything previously established about shared sandbox characters and does what he wants regardless. The only reason characters act the way they do in this story is because the plot requires them to, not because it makes sense in the situation, not because it is how their character has been established over the years, not because it is how a sane human being would react in those circumstances, but because that's how Millar wanted/needed them to act to serve his plot. This is the story (in conjunction with Final Crisis launching at DC) that got me to stop reading not just Marvel comics, but all comics for nearly 5 years as I had no desire whatsoever to walk into a comic shop of pull anything out of my boxes or shelves to read after reading it.
Unfortunately it sold well and became a phenomenon with a younger generation of readers and reshaped the landscape of Marvel in particular, but comics in general in its image, and keeps getting revisited time and time again.
When someone asks me what is wrong with modern comics, this is what I want to point to as the easiest answer. There is a lot right in comics today, but a lot wrong, and this is the epitome of the wrong parts to me.
-M
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Post by pinkfloydsound17 on Oct 21, 2014 21:37:15 GMT -5
It is that kind of opinion that makes me really want to avoid it. I can deal with cheesy and campy but this definitely sounds like what I feared. I mean, I feel like I know the premise enough but I just dont know if I can bear reading it...
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Crimebuster
CCF Podcast Guru
Making comics!
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Post by Crimebuster on Oct 21, 2014 21:37:57 GMT -5
Pretty much hated it for the same reasons mrp mentioned. The basic idea was interesting, but Millar just arbitrarily had the characters do what he needed them to do for his plot. Many major characters acted completely and totally out of character. And then these bizarro versions became the new status quo going forward. For me, the real Marvel Universe pretty much took a bullet to the head with Civil War. I essentially stopped caring about anything in the MU after almost 25 years as a fan thanks to Civil War and the new status quo that followed.
Marvel basically took the biggest a-hole writer in comics and let him write the entire universe in his image. No thanks.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2014 21:39:21 GMT -5
Others may like it more than me, so if you want a consensus I would wait and let others chime in before you make up your mind. I have a very strong opinion and had a very visceral reaction to the stories, but I may not be the baseline here.
-M
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Post by Pharozonk on Oct 21, 2014 21:47:10 GMT -5
The damage that it ultimately did to the Spider-man franchise ended my interest in the character. Take from that what you will.
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Post by Action Ace on Oct 21, 2014 22:05:09 GMT -5
I liked the trade dress of the Civil War related issues and I liked Steve McNiven's art. The story was an interesting idea and it somewhat worked for me right up until the end when the leader of one side gave up. Then again, I'm not that big a Marvel fan. It was quite interesting watching the Marvel Universe as you had always known it dissolve in front of your very eyes. Unfortunately, the new status quo was even less interesting than the one before it. My new Marvel purchases also came to a virtual end. The one part I hated was the Spidey developments. Fortunately, Marvel has put out some enjoyable cartoons and movies in the last decade, so I haven't missed the comics. Civil War might work better in movie form with the smaller movie universe cast. I'm not really enthusiastic about it though.
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Post by thwhtguardian on Oct 21, 2014 22:11:52 GMT -5
If you read it as an elseworld kind of story and avoid most of the tie-ins it's fairly interesting story but its massive size and mis-characterizations made me drop Marvel at the time. For my money though I'd suggest picking up Planet Hulk, it has the modern epic feel but it stays true to the who the Hulk is and has no tie ins.
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Post by fanboystranger on Oct 21, 2014 22:47:50 GMT -5
Civil War in itself is not very good, but it does have some good stories that spring from it, particularly Brubaker's Captain America and Ellis' revamped Thunderbolts.
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Post by earl on Oct 21, 2014 23:29:52 GMT -5
Civil War seems to be pretty much applying what had already been done better in other comics like Watchmen and The Authority to the Marvel Universe. I'm just not sure that level of cynicism really works for me with the classic Marvel characters. I'd file it under interesting but really flawed. There are some scenes that are kind of important that are not in the actual Civil War mini-series, so I think it is not a very good read in the regular trade.
I'd definitely vote Planet Hulk and Annihilation as being much better 'big' series from the same time period. Those two were really good, definitely in my list of best Marvel stories of this modern period.
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Post by Nowhere Man on Oct 22, 2014 0:47:02 GMT -5
MRP and earl sum up why I hated it. One thing that strikes me about it now is how "ugly" the art is. Technically McNiven is a good illustrator, but all those brightly colored heroes drawn so seriously, and put in such bloody, violent situations, strikes me as being more ridiculous than even the most campy Silver Age stories. It's just patently absurd outside the myopic world of mainstream superhero comics.
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Post by fanboystranger on Oct 22, 2014 1:02:59 GMT -5
Civil War seems to be pretty much applying what had already been done better in other comics like Watchmen and The Authority to the Marvel Universe. I'm just not sure that level of cynicism really works for me with the classic Marvel characters. I'd file it under interesting but really flawed. There are some scenes that are kind of important that are not in the actual Civil War mini-series, so I think it is not a very good read in the regular trade. I'd definitely vote Planet Hulk and Annihilation as being much better 'big' series from the same time period. Those two were really good, definitely in my list of best Marvel stories of this modern period. Annihilation is the best event comic that Marvel has ever done, and we got three years of excellent cosmic stories from it.
I love Planet Hulk itself, but the follow-up crossover, World War Hulk, was a massive disappointment for me. This was a story that needed to be told, but it really dropped the ball, despite some cool moments like Dr Strange invoking Zom. DC's version of this would be Blackest Night, which completely squandered all the momentum that had been building from the very good Sinestro Corps War.
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Post by foxley on Oct 22, 2014 2:05:41 GMT -5
Given the underlying message of Civil war is 'anyone who disagrees with the US government should be locked up in a prison camp without trial', and (according to the author) we are supposed to agree with this position, I would say avoid this like the plague.
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Post by Dizzy D on Oct 22, 2014 5:25:59 GMT -5
Annihilation is the best event comic that Marvel has ever done, and we got three years of excellent cosmic stories from it.
I love Planet Hulk itself, but the follow-up crossover, World War Hulk, was a massive disappointment for me. This was a story that needed to be told, but it really dropped the ball, despite some cool moments like Dr Strange invoking Zom. DC's version of this would be Blackest Night, which completely squandered all the momentum that had been building from the very good Sinestro Corps War.
At least World War Hulk gave us the Incredible Hercules series.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Oct 22, 2014 6:10:40 GMT -5
I agree 100%, except for the fact that Planet Hulk ended poorly (as did World War Hulk), so much so that it really hurt the overall feel of the story.
Annihilation (and the subequent war of Kings) were excellent, but again, if you consider it ended up giving us Sam Alexander and Bendis' GotG, it takes a hit.
Civil War was pretty terrible, IMO.. at least what I read of it. So many things just don't make any sense.
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