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Post by DubipR on Dec 22, 2020 15:07:26 GMT -5
I’m guessing here, but it really feels like people are voting with their heads rather than their hearts. Myself included. I’m certain people put a LOT of thought into their choices. I did. I know everyone did. I hate Top 10 or Top 50 or Top 100 lists in movie and music magazines. It rarely feels like there’s though, just populism. This CCF event isn’t about populism, I’m sure. It’s about our favourites (which will, of course, be subjective). I wish magazines could do the same. 100% heart choice. I like a lot of the older writers but for me the main criteria was how many times a year can I go to my book shelves and re-read and still enjoy. Stan Lee's writing is great but he's not in my Top 12. I love Marv Wolfman but his work is good for a limited read and actually savor it. Most Golden/Silver/Bronze age writers didn't make my list. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2020 15:10:39 GMT -5
Good criteria, there. For me, choosing 12 was hard, but I decided on two factors: would I revisit their work? And would I seek out all of their work?
I’ve enjoyed Marv Wolfman’s work, but I can’t say I’ve had a yearning to revisit it. I might want to track down some of his other stuff, but I’ve not felt a desire to re-read it, possibly with the exception of his Teen Titans work. Then there’s someone like Brad Meltzer. I enjoyed what I read, but I never felt a yearning to go out and find all of his other work.
The writers I’ve chosen are all writers that I want to become even more familiar with. With my #12 choice (Scott Gray), I really want to track down everything he’s done. And I want to revisit his Doctor Who stuff. So with that criteria, someone makes my list, although it could have easily been a Top 15.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Dec 22, 2020 15:21:42 GMT -5
I would say that there are maybe 5 nobrainers that if are not on your list, you are just being contrary. Other than that, there are dozens of great writers worthy of being included. I don’t know if anyone would be contrary for the sake of it. I mean, I can’t in all honesty say Alan Moore’s work has particularly thrilled me. Sure, there are a couple of stories here and there, but for the most part, many of the things I’ve read of his haven’t exactly set my world alight. It’s a subjective thing, of course, and I realise he’ll be on many lists (and I do like Watchmen). Not sure anyone would be contrary, different folk like different things. And that's fine. I can honestly say that there have been less than a handful of works written by Moore that I haven't liked and that a number of his works are not only among my favorites but also among the best I've ever read. I just don't see any sign that anyone here is confusing best with favorite. |
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Post by DubipR on Dec 22, 2020 15:30:38 GMT -5
Exactly driver1980. The yearning to revisit is the key for me. Like you mentioned Marv Wolfman. Love his work; love Tomb of Dracula, Crisis and his Batman stuff, but I don't seek to re-read those all the time. The "Selected Works" I post are actual trade runs or comic runs I pull out all the time. |
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Post by foxley on Dec 22, 2020 16:03:23 GMT -5
I would say that there are maybe 5 nobrainers that if are not on your list, you are just being contrary. Other than that, there are dozens of great writers worthy of being included. I'm sorry? Everyone's personal taste must align exactly with yours for at least 5 writers? That seems a trifle...presumptuous. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2020 17:59:55 GMT -5
@mrp made a good point about totality.
I said that my criteria was about revisiting a person’s work and seeking out other stuff. Well, totality is a good third criteria. As with Barrie Tomlinson (today’s choice), and my twelfth choice (Scott Gray), totality was a key factor. I couldn’t vote for a person who did ONE graphic novel that I enjoyed, no more than I would vote for a band who did ONE CD I liked. It has to be about totality.
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Post by Icctrombone on Dec 22, 2020 20:52:58 GMT -5
The “favorite “ qualifier makes it okay to pick Mike Barr but leave out Alan Moore. So be it.
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Post by thwhtguardian on Dec 22, 2020 23:02:34 GMT -5
The “favorite “ qualifier makes it okay to pick Mike Barr but leave out Alan Moore. So be it. I mean, that's what this event has always been about... Cei-U! can correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think we've ever done "Most Historically Important" as a theme before, but if so yeah you'd have to have a pretty good argument as to why Moore shouldn't make that list somewhere...but when the theme is best or favorite then it's always going to be more subjective and thus there could be a myriad of very valid reasons why Moore wouldn't be included. |
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Post by brutalis on Dec 22, 2020 23:52:00 GMT -5
The “favorite “ qualifier makes it okay to pick Mike Barr but leave out Alan Moore. So be it. Damn skippy! I read my Barr and Hama comics over and over. Moore I haven't read even ONCE MORE since originally purchased. The name of this game was in the title: YOUR FAVORITE, not Favored. I knew there would be LOTS of writers on everyone's lists repeated: Lee, Moore, Ennis, Gaiman, Thomas, McGregor, Englehart, Busiek and so forth. Gimme a top 50 list and they are there, but top 12 has me limiting to CHOOSE more decisively who is going to appear. |
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Post by shaxper on Dec 23, 2020 1:51:54 GMT -5
I would say that there are maybe 5 nobrainers that if are not on your list, you are just being contrary. Stan Lee did not make my top twelve, and it was neither because I failed to consider his importance nor because I was trying to be edgy. He isn't one of my favorite writers, pure and simple. Best carnival barker ever? Sure! Early advocate for creative teams? Sure! Absolutely critical component of Marvel's success? Absolutely. Favorite writer? Nope. He made my Top 20, though. |
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Post by foxley on Dec 23, 2020 2:30:13 GMT -5
The “favorite “ qualifier makes it okay to pick Mike Barr but leave out Alan Moore. So be it. At least Barr used the final issue of Camelot 3000 to end the story instead pissing all over, say, The Lord of the Rings, unlike Moore, who used the final issue of LOEG: Century to vent his spleen about Harry Potter for some reason. Not entirely sure what his beef with a series of kids books is, but he obviously feels very strongly about it and, as comics fans, we are undoubtedly supposed to agree with him. But this is probably a no-brainer and I am just be deliberately being contrary.
Moore was a consideration for my list, but I ultimately decided that he was way too variable in his quality for my taste. I preferred to give space to writers whose output I find consistently enjoyable.
And I don't know who your 5 'no-brainers' are, but I can certainly tell that Stan Lee and Jim Starlin were never going to make my list.
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Post by Icctrombone on Dec 23, 2020 5:59:24 GMT -5
The “favorite “ qualifier makes it okay to pick Mike Barr but leave out Alan Moore. So be it. At least Barr used the final issue of Camelot 3000 to end the story instead pissing all over, say, The Lord of the Rings, unlike Moore, who used the final issue of LOEG: Century to vent his spleen about Harry Potter for some reason. Not entirely sure what his beef with a series of kids books is, but he obviously feels very strongly about it and, as comics fans, we are undoubtedly supposed to agree with him. But this is probably a no-brainer and I am just be deliberately being contrary.
Moore was a consideration for my list, but I ultimately decided that he was way too variable in his quality for my taste. I preferred to give space to writers whose output I find consistently enjoyable.
And I don't know who your 5 'no-brainers' are, but I can certainly tell that Stan Lee and Jim Starlin were never going to make my list.
You sound kind of hostile, it’s just my opinion. Put the pitchfork away. |
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Post by foxley on Dec 23, 2020 6:14:46 GMT -5
At least Barr used the final issue of Camelot 3000 to end the story instead pissing all over, say, The Lord of the Rings, unlike Moore, who used the final issue of LOEG: Century to vent his spleen about Harry Potter for some reason. Not entirely sure what his beef with a series of kids books is, but he obviously feels very strongly about it and, as comics fans, we are undoubtedly supposed to agree with him. But this is probably a no-brainer and I am just be deliberately being contrary.
Moore was a consideration for my list, but I ultimately decided that he was way too variable in his quality for my taste. I preferred to give space to writers whose output I find consistently enjoyable.
And I don't know who your 5 'no-brainers' are, but I can certainly tell that Stan Lee and Jim Starlin were never going to make my list.
You sound kind of hostile, it’s just my opinion. Put the pitchfork away. I was a little miffed to be told that if I don't have your five 'no-brainers', on my list, then I am being deliberately contrary.
My apologies if you were offended, but one of my hot buttons is being told that I have to agree with something. Any article that starts "Everyone thinks..." or "Everyone agrees..." immediately gets my back up.
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Post by Icctrombone on Dec 23, 2020 6:34:20 GMT -5
You sound kind of hostile, it’s just my opinion. Put the pitchfork away. I was a little miffed to be told that if I don't have your five 'no-brainers', on my list, then I am being deliberately contrary.
My apologies if you were offended, but one of my hot buttons is being told that I have to agree with something. Any article that starts "Everyone thinks..." or "Everyone agrees..." immediately gets my back up.
Foxley, you're the man. Everyone has a reason for who they pick and don't pick. There are no wrong answers. |
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Post by coke & comics on Dec 23, 2020 8:30:10 GMT -5
My criterion was something like, who wrote lots of stories that mean the most to me, the stories I reread the most, the stories I connect with, and the stories I think are Great with a capital objective G and great with a lowercase subjective g. That criterion made #1 and #2 obvious. #3 had been obvious until I remembered he drew most of them as well. Generally, the top 10 or so pretty much fell right out without too much thought.
To help nail the last couple, I started adding other criterion, like who hasn't also done work that's greatly annoyed me.
When I was almost done, I only spent mental energy on a few key decisions. I strained my brain on works that Starlin hadn't drawn to see if he should still be on my list and where he should go if I forgot that Warlock and Metamorphosis Odyssey existed.
I put a bit of similar thought into Brubaker, making sure I was ignoring his truly spectacular last decade, and also reminding myself he had drawn Lowlife.
I did a last minute flip of Stern and Milligan.
I spent a lot of time on choice #12 and it was mostly a coin flip. Of my remaining nominees, I asked who had never written work I despised, and who I could come up with the most cool quotes for off the top of my head. Ostrander was strongly considered for #12. Dini won mainly because I immediately thought of 3 quotes to use, and Ostrander would have required flipping through books.
It was a fairly late-game decision. I'd even already tracked down all my quotes for a Paul Jenkins entry when I decided I was going to hold Civil War: The Return against him. I don't really object to him getting the rent paid, but for that prestigious #12 spot on my list, I decided I would set some standards.
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