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Post by berkley on Jan 18, 2022 18:56:05 GMT -5
I think the creators look at the film-makers as fellow-creators and wouldn't usually criticise their wirk, just as they don't often criticise other comics creators, whether n regard to a character they've worked on themselves or not.
My personal take on the character goes back to the very early days, so I'm not into the more popular version that's become more or less standard, with the multiple personality disorder and so on. The most recent MK that I really liked was the Warren Ellis series, whoch coincided pretty closely to my view of the character. I haven't read the Lemire one or the current series, whoever is writing that, but I assume the series is more in line with those. I'll probably give it a look, accepting in advance that it isn't going to be the Moon Knight I'd really like to see.
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Post by The Captain on Jan 19, 2022 12:31:03 GMT -5
Tragedy has struck the show before its premiere, as actor Gaspard Ulliel, who is portraying Anton Mogart, known to comic fans as Midnight Man, has died after being involved in a skiing accident in France. He was only 37 years old.
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Post by thwhtguardian on Jan 19, 2022 13:54:21 GMT -5
Tragedy has struck the show before its premiere, as actor Gaspard Ulliel, who is portraying Anton Mogart, known to comic fans as Midnight Man, has died after being involved in a skiing accident in France. He was only 37 years old. I was just reading that, any death is sad but its especially so as this could have been a big break for him. I've read he's a pretty big deal in France but a Marvel role would have really got him a lot of eyes here in the states. |
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Post by berkley on Jan 19, 2022 21:24:16 GMT -5
Tragedy has struck the show before its premiere, as actor Gaspard Ulliel, who is portraying Anton Mogart, known to comic fans as Midnight Man, has died after being involved in a skiing accident in France. He was only 37 years old. I was just reading that, any death is sad but its especially so as this could have been a big break for him. I've read he's a pretty big deal in France but a Marvel role would have really got him a lot of eyes here in the states. yeah, a friend of mine sent an email around about that today, as we had been talking about the MK series a bit. I saw Ulliel in the Xavier Dolan film Only the End of the World a few years ago, where he did a good job, more than holding his own in a star-studded cast (Léa Seydoux, Vincent Cassels, Marion Cotillard). |
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Post by Randle-El on Jan 20, 2022 0:16:19 GMT -5
I'm genuinely curious how this show will be received by the mental health community. I recall that the M. Night Shyamalan movie Split, which was also about a character with DID, didn't get a warm reception. I think there was a similar reaction to Joker.
With people being more aware of mental health issues these days, and advocates having a bigger platform than ever, I wonder if the clock is ticking for these kinds of characters. It wasn't too long ago that LGBT characters were habitually portrayed as murderous villains, and now everywhere you go there is an announcement for a new LGBT superhero. Times have changed in that regard and I wonder if it's just a matter of time until characters suffering from mental health problems will change in the same way.
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Post by thwhtguardian on Jan 20, 2022 19:05:01 GMT -5
...I really don't remember there being a lot of gay villains.
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Post by Randle-El on Jan 21, 2022 10:24:08 GMT -5
...I really don't remember there being a lot of gay villains.
Silence of the Lambs and Basic Instinct were the first ones that came to mind. The serial killer in the former (Buffalo Bill, not the character played by Anthony Hopkins) was what we would label "transgender" today, and Sharon Stone's character in the latter was bisexual. There's also Catherine Deneuve's character from The Hunger (bisexual vampire). I'm sure there are more if I google. It's not like American cinema doesn't have a long and rich history of playing up stereotypes to portray people from minority communities as villains. Fu Manchu anyone?
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Post by thwhtguardian on Jan 21, 2022 11:15:36 GMT -5
...I really don't remember there being a lot of gay villains.
Silence of the Lambs and Basic Instinct were the first ones that came to mind. The serial killer in the former (Buffalo Bill, not the character played by Anthony Hopkins) was what we would label "transgender" today, and Sharon Stone's character in the latter was bisexual. There's also Catherine Deneuve's character from The Hunger (bisexual vampire). I'm sure there are more if I google. It's not like American cinema doesn't have a long and rich history of playing up stereotypes to portray people from minority communities as villains. Fu Manchu anyone?
That doesn't seem like habitually to me. |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jan 21, 2022 11:37:06 GMT -5
Silence of the Lambs and Basic Instinct were the first ones that came to mind. The serial killer in the former (Buffalo Bill, not the character played by Anthony Hopkins) was what we would label "transgender" today, and Sharon Stone's character in the latter was bisexual. There's also Catherine Deneuve's character from The Hunger (bisexual vampire). I'm sure there are more if I google. It's not like American cinema doesn't have a long and rich history of playing up stereotypes to portray people from minority communities as villains. Fu Manchu anyone?
That doesn't seem like habitually to me. It depends on whether you're looking at overt vs. covert depictions. Keep in mind that for much of the history of film gay characters simply didn't exist. So film-makers used extensive short-hand to strongly imply that characters were gay. For example, it's pretty clear in the book The Maltese Falcon that Joel Cairo is homosexual, it is up to the portrayal by Lorre and the direction by Huston to imply it. See also; Casper Gutman and Wilmer. The "Sissy Villain" trope was used extensively. The "Depraved Homosexual" trope was less common until the relaxation of production standards in the late 60s and into the 70s. Bruno Anthony the villain in Strangers on the Train fits pretty well. As does the villain in The Laughing Detective. The gay villain/murderer is a long-running trope through film and literature. |
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Post by thwhtguardian on Jan 21, 2022 11:42:21 GMT -5
That doesn't seem like habitually to me. It depends on whether you're looking at overt vs. covert depictions. Keep in mind that for much of the history of film gay characters simply didn't exist. So film-makers used extensive short-hand to strongly imply that characters were gay. For example, it's pretty clear in the book The Maltese Falcon that Joel Cairo is homosexual, it is up to the portrayal by Lorre and the direction by Huston to imply it. See also; Casper Gutman and Wilmer. The "Sissy Villain" trope was used extensively. The "Depraved Homosexual" trope was less common until the relaxation of production standards in the late 60s and into the 70s. Bruno Anthony the villain in Strangers on the Train fits pretty well. As does the villain in The Laughing Detective. The gay villain/murderer is a long-running trope through film and literature. I'm definitely not denying it's been done, it just doesn't seem like something done every single time which is what habitual implies to me. Probably splitting hairs. |
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Post by Dizzy D on Jan 21, 2022 12:37:10 GMT -5
That doesn't seem like habitually to me. It depends on whether you're looking at overt vs. covert depictions. Keep in mind that for much of the history of film gay characters simply didn't exist. So film-makers used extensive short-hand to strongly imply that characters were gay. For example, it's pretty clear in the book The Maltese Falcon that Joel Cairo is homosexual, it is up to the portrayal by Lorre and the direction by Huston to imply it. See also; Casper Gutman and Wilmer. The "Sissy Villain" trope was used extensively. The "Depraved Homosexual" trope was less common until the relaxation of production standards in the late 60s and into the 70s. Bruno Anthony the villain in Strangers on the Train fits pretty well. As does the villain in The Laughing Detective. The gay villain/murderer is a long-running trope through film and literature. To keep it in comics: look at Frank Miller's Xerxes in 300 or the Joker in the Dark Knight Returns. Those are the most obvious examples, but there are many more. |
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Post by Marv-El on Jan 21, 2022 14:05:13 GMT -5
I am all in for this series. For when it comes to MK, I've always wanted to like the character but Marvel's erratic handling of him over the decades has impeded my ability to do so. So in terms of whether this adapts more from Moench's or Lemire's or whomever's comic run, it won't distract to me because I have a blank slate of the character overall.
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Post by Marv-El on Jan 21, 2022 14:13:15 GMT -5
That doesn't seem like habitually to me. It depends on whether you're looking at overt vs. covert depictions. Keep in mind that for much of the history of film gay characters simply didn't exist. So film-makers used extensive short-hand to strongly imply that characters were gay. For example, it's pretty clear in the book The Maltese Falcon that Joel Cairo is homosexual, it is up to the portrayal by Lorre and the direction by Huston to imply it. See also; Casper Gutman and Wilmer. The "Sissy Villain" trope was used extensively. The "Depraved Homosexual" trope was less common until the relaxation of production standards in the late 60s and into the 70s. Bruno Anthony the villain in Strangers on the Train fits pretty well. As does the villain in The Laughing Detective. The gay villain/murderer is a long-running trope through film and literature. Hopefully not to distract from the OP but on a side-note, Maltese Falcon is one of my favorite all-time films (one of three films that whenever I catch a broadcast of it, I have to watch it regardless). Based solely on the film, I would agree that Cairo comes across as gay (Bogart's acting also lends to this thinking especially the scene where he searches through Cairo's possessions). But Gutman and Wilmer? I've never gotten that feeling from the film, perhaps more of a paternal feeling from Gutman towards Wilmer if anything. Was that how they were portrayed by Hammett in the book? |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jan 21, 2022 14:14:52 GMT -5
It depends on whether you're looking at overt vs. covert depictions. Keep in mind that for much of the history of film gay characters simply didn't exist. So film-makers used extensive short-hand to strongly imply that characters were gay. For example, it's pretty clear in the book The Maltese Falcon that Joel Cairo is homosexual, it is up to the portrayal by Lorre and the direction by Huston to imply it. See also; Casper Gutman and Wilmer. The "Sissy Villain" trope was used extensively. The "Depraved Homosexual" trope was less common until the relaxation of production standards in the late 60s and into the 70s. Bruno Anthony the villain in Strangers on the Train fits pretty well. As does the villain in The Laughing Detective. The gay villain/murderer is a long-running trope through film and literature. Hopefully not to distract from the OP but on a side-note, Maltese Falcon is one of my favorite all-time films (one of three films that whenever I catch a broadcast of it, I have to watch it regardless). Based solely on the film, I would agree that Cairo comes across as gay (Bogart's acting also lends to this thinking especially the scene where he searches through Cairo's possessions). But Gutman and Wilmer? I've never gotten that feeling from the film, perhaps more of a paternal feeling from Gutman towards Wilmer if anything. Was that how they were portrayed by Hammett in the book? There's a reason that Wilmer is called a "gunsel" and it ain't because he carries a gun (which is not what it originally meant). |
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Post by thwhtguardian on Jan 21, 2022 15:12:08 GMT -5
It depends on whether you're looking at overt vs. covert depictions. Keep in mind that for much of the history of film gay characters simply didn't exist. So film-makers used extensive short-hand to strongly imply that characters were gay. For example, it's pretty clear in the book The Maltese Falcon that Joel Cairo is homosexual, it is up to the portrayal by Lorre and the direction by Huston to imply it. See also; Casper Gutman and Wilmer. The "Sissy Villain" trope was used extensively. The "Depraved Homosexual" trope was less common until the relaxation of production standards in the late 60s and into the 70s. Bruno Anthony the villain in Strangers on the Train fits pretty well. As does the villain in The Laughing Detective. The gay villain/murderer is a long-running trope through film and literature. Hopefully not to distract from the OP but on a side-note, Maltese Falcon is one of my favorite all-time films (one of three films that whenever I catch a broadcast of it, I have to watch it regardless). Based solely on the film, I would agree that Cairo comes across as gay (Bogart's acting also lends to this thinking especially the scene where he searches through Cairo's possessions). But Gutman and Wilmer? I've never gotten that feeling from the film, perhaps more of a paternal feeling from Gutman towards Wilmer if anything. Was that how they were portrayed by Hammett in the book? It's definitely more prominent in the book but there are references in the film as well. |
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