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Post by Phil Maurice on Nov 7, 2014 17:08:55 GMT -5
1990s Superman 82 (I'm a Supes fan, to me seeing him return was much more satisfying than seeing him die) I've clearly given the wrong impression. I adore Superman and was repulsed by seeing him die again (Superman #149. . .shudder). I chose it because it made international headlines and sparked tremendous interest in comics and collecting. . .albeit for all the wrong reasons. And I love all the little frustrated tics and fits you exhibit when making your lists, dupersuper.  |
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Post by Phil Maurice on Nov 7, 2014 17:40:04 GMT -5
1960s-Amazing Fantasy #15- one success is a fluke, two is a cornerstone of something to build on, and while the FF was the first success, the success of Spider-Man was the second cornerstone of the Marvel juggernaut and with 2 cornerstones you have a foundation you can build on. 1950s-Showcase #4-1st Flash, revitalized the flagging super-hero market which would then go one to once again dominate the industry 1930s-Detective #27 for the same reasons I chose AF 15 for the 60s. One success can be a fluke, the second proves the viability of something; Superman was a huge success and created the super-hero, but with Batman we had proof the genre and concept was bigger than a single character and was a viable concept that could grow an entire industry around...-M I like your thought process here (and throughout, actually), but just to be a flea under your collar, why not Showcase #22 in the 1950s column? Or for that matter, Showcase #9? |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Nov 7, 2014 17:40:20 GMT -5
1930s: Action Comics #1 is going to be the go-to choice. You can argue Detective #1 or #27. You can argue New Fun Comics #1. But I give it to Famous Funnies #1. Max Gaines created the comic book...and then marketed it. And everyone else jumped on his band-wagon. Yes there had been proto-comics. But Max Gaines started something new.
1940s: Tough one. I'll probably go with Archie #1. Yeah...he first appeared in Pep. But being able to maintain his own book made it clear that the Teen-humor book was a thing...and Archie and the gang kept it a thing for another 70+ years. Crime Does Not Pay #22 is also a great choice. Hugely influential in both crime and horror comics. And sold millions of copies at its height. Uncle Scrooge #1 also comes to mind.
1950s: I honestly never considered any book besides Mad #1...except maybe Mad #4. And you can make a good argument the latter is more important. It's really hard to overestimate the influence Mad had on comedy thereafter.
1960s: Again...I really didn't consider anything besides Fantastic Four #1. Now you can say that the Marvel Universe didn't actually start until Fantastic Four #12 or Amazing Spider-Man #1. And there's something to that. But if Stan is to be believed (and in this case I'm inclined to do so) he was leaning toward leaving comics. If FF #1 doesn't happen and isn't successful...there probably wasn't a Marvel Age of Comics.
1970s: This one is hard. Lots of contenders. Conan #1 really did herald a new direction for comics...especially for the big two. Amazing Spider-Man #96 was absolutely crucial in the relaxation of the Comic Code. Cerebus #1 and Elfquest #1 have been mentioned...and both have merit. But I really do thing Shax is on to something with 2000 A.D. #1. The sheer amount of talent that came out of that magazine and it's progeny is insane.
1980s: Lotta usual suspects. Dark Knight Returns #1. Watchmen #1. Personally I would look to Swamp Thing #37 and Sandman #1. But the answer I think is Saga of the Swamp Thing #22. This is the book that led to Vertigo and to the change in the way that comic were written and for whom they were written.
1990s: This one is hard. Honestly...I'm not a 90s basher. But I'm not sure the influences here have been that sustained. Yeah...Spawn #1 was huge...but is it still germane. Sandman #19 is important..but was it really a game-changer since no other comic can do that now. I think I go with Bone #1. Ultimately Bone opened up an entirely new market through Scholastic that has been exploited by Babymouse and others and exposed kids to comics that may well not have had access to them otherwise.
2000s. I really can't argue with The Walking Dead #1.
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Post by dupersuper on Nov 7, 2014 17:42:24 GMT -5
1990s Superman 82 (I'm a Supes fan, to me seeing him return was much more satisfying than seeing him die) I've clearly given the wrong impression. I adore Superman and was repulsed by seeing him die again (Superman #149. . .shudder). I chose it because it made international headlines and sparked tremendous interest in comics and collecting. . .albeit for all the wrong reasons. And I love all the little frustrated tics and fits you exhibit when making your lists, dupersuper. Thanks. My Superman pick wasn't in response to any comment of yours (or any ones), just to 75 understandably being objectively the bigger deal, but - as glued to all those issues as my eyes were - it's 82 that had me smiling the widest. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2014 17:46:15 GMT -5
What's the signicance of MAD #4?
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Post by Phil Maurice on Nov 7, 2014 17:59:28 GMT -5
1930s: Action Comics #1 is going to be the go-to choice. You can argue Detective #1 or #27. You can argue New Fun Comics #1. But I give it to Famous Funnies #1. Max Gaines created the comic book...and then marketed it. And everyone else jumped on his band-wagon. Yes there had been proto-comics. But Max Gaines started something new. . . You weren't kidding when you said you'd think about it, Slam. Been looking forward to your picks and I'm not disappointed. Bone is a really interesting choice and as much as I love Sandman, and that Shakespeare story in particular, I agree with you.
Whether or not we can convince the board of something other than Action #1 is another matter. You and MRP have tilted at it the most valiantly so far, I think.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Nov 7, 2014 18:11:21 GMT -5
What's the signicance of MAD #4? The Superduperman parody. It was a pretty scathing parody of a then popular single character. Prior to that the parodies had been a little more generic, looking more at a genre rather than a single character/book/show. It was also more hard-hitting than any that had come before. "Starchie" in Mad #12 was another water-shed. |
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Post by Phil Maurice on Nov 7, 2014 18:19:20 GMT -5
What's the signicance of MAD #4? The Superduperman parody. It was and pretty scathing parody of a then popular single character. Prior to that the parodies had been a little more generic looking more at a genre rather than a single character/book/show. It was also more hard-hitting than any that had come before. "Starchie" in Mad #12 was another water-shed. Well said. It also didn't hurt that National (DC) threatened to sue but never followed through, encouraging Harvey Kurtzman to laser-focus his satirical sights on a succession of targets and "sacred cows," firmly establishing the MAD m.o. |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Nov 7, 2014 18:27:40 GMT -5
The Superduperman parody. It was and pretty scathing parody of a then popular single character. Prior to that the parodies had been a little more generic looking more at a genre rather than a single character/book/show. It was also more hard-hitting than any that had come before. "Starchie" in Mad #12 was another water-shed. Well said. It also didn't hurt that National (DC) threatened to sue but never followed through, encouraging Harvey Kurtzman to laser-focus his satirical sights on a succession of targets and "sacred cows," firmly establishing the MAD m.o. Exactly. Even the earlier stories that were nominally singular such as "The Lone Stranger" and "Dragged Net" were more truly genre spoofs. And they weren't close to as brutal as Superduperman. |
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Post by fanboystranger on Nov 7, 2014 18:38:24 GMT -5
I was thinking last night that the most important book of the 1970s might well have been 2000 AD #1. Without that publication, the British invasion that dominated and shaped comic books of the 1980s might never have arrived. That's actually a really good choice, although it would take a year or two for 2000AD to really blossom. (Really after Starlord folded, which merged Strontium Dog and to a lesser extent Ro-Busters to the 2000AD stable.) Even though 2000AD started in 1977, I'd argue that it was 1978 when it really became something special. |
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Post by chadwilliam on Nov 7, 2014 20:10:03 GMT -5
1930's: Action Comics 1.
1940's: If Wonder Woman's impact had extended beyond her own pages, I'd be giving her debut in All Star Comics 8 this slot. Unfortunately, I can't see anyone really trying to follow in Martson's footsteps - women have usually been depicted as obnoxious pests, incompetent buffoons, or there to serve as T & A - as popular as Wonder Woman is, to give this position to her would be giving my hobby too much credit. So...
Police Comics 1. Although it isn't really noticable in this issue, Jack Cole's Plastic Man would eventually come to read as like something out of MAD - years before that comic was even dreamed up. The absurdist nature of Cole's imagination in which what was going on in the background was sometimes as important as the foreground, where the inability of the characters therein to recognize the absurdity of their own situation allowed the comedy to be played straight, and the "everything and the kitchen sink" attitude to the tales forces me to give this slot to Police Comics 1 for the reason I almost gave it to MAD 1.
1950's: Vault of Horror 12/Tales from the Crypt 17 - Both issues have April-May publication dates so I don't know which came first, but it's here that EC's horror run began.
1960's: Fantastic Four 1.
1970's: I think I'll have to go with Shaxper's suggestion of 2000AD 1 for the reason he cited.
1980's: The Tick 1. I just like the Tick. Crisis on Infinite Earths 12 might be my runner-up though for the dubious distinction of being my jumping off point for so many characters.
1990's and up: pass.
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Post by Phil Maurice on Nov 7, 2014 20:19:06 GMT -5
Police Comics 1. Although it isn't really noticable in this issue, Jack Cole's Plastic Man would eventually come to read as like something out of MAD - years before that comic was even dreamed up. The absurdist nature of Cole's imagination in which what was going on in the background was sometimes as important as the foreground, where the inability of the characters therein to recognize the absurdity of their own situation allowed the comedy to be played straight, and the "everything and the kitchen sink" attitude to the tales forces me to give this slot to Police Comics 1 for the reason I almost gave it to MAD 1. I've always thought that Jack Cole's sensibility as you describe it would have been quite at home in Kurtzman's MAD. That he, Kurtzman, and Will Elder eventually landed at Playboy is no surprise at all. |
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Post by earl on Nov 7, 2014 20:22:07 GMT -5
I'll take a different angle.
30s - New Fun Comics #1 (First comic book of original material.)
40s - Batman #1 (C'mon it's Batman, possibly the most popular and commercially successful comic character ever.)
50s - Mad Magazine #24 (Screw you Wertham!)
60s - Avengers #4 (The Marvel issue that merged the Golden age to Silver age with a new star character for a comic franchise that ended up with a movie franchise worth billions.)
70s - Cerebus #1 (DIY.)
80s - Watchmen TPB/HC (The trade has never left print.)
90s - Hellboy Seeds of Destruction #1 (Doing it for yourself and somehow being able to cash in big time in Hollywood.)
00s- Walking Dead #1
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Post by Phil Maurice on Nov 7, 2014 20:29:06 GMT -5
I'll take a different angle. You don't say.
I chose to read this list as if your avatar was delivering it an inch from my nose. It works! Beautifully minimalist descriptions. You had me at "Screw you, Wertham!"
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Post by Action Ace on Nov 7, 2014 21:45:44 GMT -5
For the 1980s I'd say New Teen Titans #1 would be a contender. The 1984 Baxter series for it and the Legion shows the rise of the Direct Market that would firmly be in control of the North American market by the end of the decade.
Will Eisner's Contract with God might be a contender for the 1970s with its status as first graphic novel.
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