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Post by Paste Pot Paul on Nov 14, 2014 3:19:51 GMT -5
The more I think about it, the more I see 2000AD having the greater claim to the 70s spot. Moreso than Conan, and more than Heavy Metal. Despite its introduction of the Euromeisters to the American public, the reality is the sales were never enough for the effect to be significant. However 2000AD gave us Bolland, Gibbons, Dillon, Bisley, Adlard, Moore, Millar, and Morrison, just to name a few. The work that they and those after/before/with them have contributed to comics, games, movies and television is huge, and we all owe John Wagner,Pat Mills and Carlos Ezquerra (and so many others) a huge amount.   Attachment DeletedNo 2000AD, no Cursed Earth, and selfishly, no DR & Quinch. |
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Post by fanboystranger on Nov 14, 2014 14:48:33 GMT -5
The more I think about it, the more I see 2000AD having the greater claim to the 70s spot. Moreso than Conan, and more than Heavy Metal. Despite its introduction of the Euromeisters to the American public, the reality is the sales were never enough for the effect to be significant. However 2000AD gave us Bolland, Gibbons, Dillon, Bisley, Adlard, Moore, Millar, and Morrison, just to name a few. The work that they and those after/before/with them have contributed to comics, games, movies and television is huge, and we all owe John Wagner,Pat Mills and Carlos Ezquerra (and so many others) a huge amount. No 2000AD, no Cursed Earth, and selfishly, no DR & Quinch. One of the things that I've always found interesting about 2000AD is the guys who have made it the American market and those that haven't. I'm not talking about Mills or John Wagner, who have always been kinda indifferent to the format of the 20+ page individual issue, but guys like John Smith, Robbie Morrison, and Gordon Rennie, all of whom are pretty excellent in their own right. In my opinion, Smith is on a par with Grant Morrison and much better than Mark Millar, all of whom worked together in the early '90s on 2000AD, but he's never really had a fair shake in the US market. Robbie Morrison has written perhaps the finest adventure strip of the past two decades in Nikolai Dante, but he's best known in the N American market for a failed Authority revival. Rennie has a tremendous winning streak with developing 2000AD properties, but other than a few blips (mostly for Dark Horse), he hasn't had any N American presence.
On the other hand, it's been nice seeing Al Ewing, Si Spurrier, and Rob Williams getting work from Marvel over the past few years. I'd argue that Ewing is actually Marvel's best writer at the moment. Ian Edgington, Dan Abnett, and Andy Diggle are also doing very well, but they've been around a lot longer.
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Post by Paste Pot Paul on Nov 14, 2014 18:45:17 GMT -5
No 2000AD, no Bolland, no avatar for the fanboystranger.
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Post by hondobrode on Nov 14, 2014 20:00:46 GMT -5
I agree 2000 A.D. is hugely important.
Heavy Metal directly influenced Epic Magazine which begat Epic Comics and pre-dated Vertigo, and the British Invasion.
Important as Vertigo was, Marvel was there first and got there as a direct result of HM.
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Post by fanboystranger on Nov 15, 2014 2:20:28 GMT -5
No 2000AD, no Bolland, no avatar for the fanboystranger. Agreed. Also, no Peter Milligan who wrote the "Schrodinger's Pizza" storyline that inspired it! (Plus, y'know, Bad Company, Hewligan's Haircut, and Sooner or Later), |
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Post by fanboystranger on Nov 15, 2014 2:29:20 GMT -5
I agree 2000 A.D. is hugely important. Heavy Metal directly influenced Epic Magazine which begat Epic Comics and pre-dated Vertigo, and the British Invasion. Important as Vertigo was, Marvel was there first and got there as a direct result of HM. The only quibble I'd make is how much was that Metal Hurlant/ Heavy Metal material actually absorbed by the comics scene? I don't see a lot of people trying to be Enki Bilal, much as they should aspire to it. (Simonson, maybe, but Toppi wasn't exactly a MH guy?) To paraphrase a recent interview with Howard Chaykin, those comics were shit, but they were in French, so we didn't know that they were shit. We can see the impact of the Anglophonic 2000AD guys on N American comics, but I'm not sure we can really see the impact of Metal Hurlant/Heavy Metal. I love those early Epic efforts, but I don't really see their influence. To be frank, no one's really rivalled what Rick Veitch was doing with color in those days, let alone storytelling. |
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Post by Paste Pot Paul on Nov 15, 2014 5:22:47 GMT -5
The only quibble I'd make is how much was that Metal Hurlant/ Heavy Metal material actually absorbed by the comics scene? Probably a lot more than we're aware of. I know a number of people who wouldnt read a comic, but would talk for ages about Corben, and worshipped the ground Moebius floated above. They just loved the whole adult fantasy/SF thing, and maybe a bit of T&A sold them on it too. I remember seeing some RanXerox when I was 16 or so, and it just blew my mind. A number of pros have also spoken of their adoration for certain Euro stars(sorry this is my catch all phrase that encompasses all non-nth american artists), Look at Giffen being so into Jose Munoz that it changed his style. |
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Post by hondobrode on Nov 15, 2014 9:23:48 GMT -5
Whereas the 2000 A.D. Is a more direct connection, and maybe a stronger short term influence, I think HM gave gloss, sophistication and awe to my generation that they hadn't seen before. It's not the first thing a person thinks of as it's not directly a comic, kind of like the Shadow pulps in the 1930's entry, but, I'll bet if you asked the creators of that age what influence it had, along with Epic Illustrated, it would be significant, despite the fact that yes, esp HM, was a lot of crap. Most comics were crap too, honestly, but that doesn't mean we didn't love em. And let's not gloss over the cream that was in HM. That's what really set minds ablaze.  Jean "Moebius" Giraud Milo Manara  Enki Bilal  Philippe Druillet  Tanino Liberatore  H.R. Giger  Richard Corben HM stepped up the sophistication and raised the bar of what could be. It was glossy heroin that blew the doors off of the standard newsstand comics of the time. The stories were mostly crap, but the images were what opened your wallet and burned into your mind. This influenced not only fans but a generation of creators. I think it's equally important the 2000 A.D. and HM influences; one was more direct and one was more widespread and had a ripple effect that took longer to connect. |
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Nov 15, 2014 10:24:30 GMT -5
I have a good handful of HM, most of all the Epic Illustrated and even some Rook, but I don't recall having ever seen Enki Bilbal. Any specific issue references to this work? That picture is amazing.
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Post by Dizzy D on Nov 15, 2014 13:55:46 GMT -5
I have a good handful of HM, most of all the Epic Illustrated and even some Rook, but I don't recall having ever seen Enki Bilbal. Any specific issue references to this work? That picture is amazing. Wikipedia had a good list of his work in Heavy Metal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enki_Bilal#Comics_in_Heavy_Metal_Magazine). Picking a couple from those: The hunting Party, the Nikopol Trilogy and the City that Didn't Exist are among my favourites. |
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Nov 15, 2014 15:06:17 GMT -5
I have a good handful of HM, most of all the Epic Illustrated and even some Rook, but I don't recall having ever seen Enki Bilbal. Any specific issue references to this work? That picture is amazing. Wikipedia had a good list of his work in Heavy Metal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enki_Bilal#Comics_in_Heavy_Metal_Magazine). Picking a couple from those: The hunting Party, the Nikopol Trilogy and the City that Didn't Exist are among my favourites. Thanks Dizzy. I'll check out the link when I get home. |
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Post by fanboystranger on Nov 15, 2014 16:21:27 GMT -5
Whereas the 2000 A.D. Is a more direct connection, and maybe a stronger short term influence, I think HM gave gloss, sophistication and awe to my generation that they hadn't seen before. It's not the first thing a person thinks of as it's not directly a comic, kind of like the Shadow pulps in the 1930's entry, but, I'll bet if you asked the creators of that age what influence it had, along with Epic Illustrated, it would be significant, despite the fact that yes, esp HM, was a lot of crap. Most comics were crap too, honestly, but that doesn't mean we didn't love em. And let's not gloss over the cream that was in HM. That's what really set minds ablaze. Jean "Moebius" Giraud Milo Manara Enki Bilal Philippe Druillet Tanino Liberatore H.R. Giger Richard Corben HM stepped up the sophistication and raised the bar of what could be. It was glossy heroin that blew the doors off of the standard newsstand comics of the time. The stories were mostly crap, but the images were what opened your wallet and burned into your mind. This influenced not only fans but a generation of creators. I think it's equally important the 2000 A.D. and HM influences; one was more direct and one was more widespread and had a ripple effect that took longer to connect. I guess what I was trying to get at is that the 2000AD influence is pretty obvious, but you have to dig a bit more to see that MH/HM influence. Mostly because the process for those MH/HM comics was so different in terms of a more generous time allotment and creator freedom. You don't see that level of detail in the average workmanlike American monthly comic because no one could work at that level with a monthly deadline. Whereas the 6-8 page weekly model of 2000AD fits more easily within the framework of the 20-22 page monthly comic. Where you see that MH/HM influence is on special projects, mini-series, etc, but not the monthly American comic book, which is why I like that Walt Simonson is releeasing Ragnarok on a bi-monthly schedule to start, Mike Mignola does Hellboy in Hell when the whim strikes him, Ted McKeever essentially puts out one weird, idiosyncratic Image mini a year, Sandman: Overture is published on Gaiman's and Williams III's terms rather than forced as a monthly, etc. But that's certainly not the norm for N American comics. |
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Post by fanboystranger on Nov 15, 2014 16:27:14 GMT -5
I have a good handful of HM, most of all the Epic Illustrated and even some Rook, but I don't recall having ever seen Enki Bilbal. Any specific issue references to this work? That picture is amazing. Enki Bilal is one of my favorite comics creator. His work is gorgeous and always thought provoking. I think his most prominant work in Metal Hurlant would have been Exterminator 17, which has a nice HC edition. It's good, but not as great as his "Towncapes" work, The Hunting Party, The Black Order Brigade, The Nikopol Trilogy, or the Beasts Tetralogy. He seems to be more invested in film work these days, including directing a pretty good adaptation of Nikopol called Immortal that's worth watching. |
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Post by Paste Pot Paul on Nov 15, 2014 16:35:44 GMT -5
Got to love that Moebius picture.
I would pick up the occasional issue, determined to be more adult/mature in what I read, and it would be full of Druillet blathering on about some mystical mumbo jumbo, like Starlin exploring the metaphysical minutaie of Marvels Universe, and I would go straight back to superheroes.
There is some of it I loved, mainly the art, but those stories mainly just confused the hell out of me.
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Post by hondobrode on Nov 15, 2014 16:58:24 GMT -5
I agree most of the stories were incomprehensible, but supposedly Ted White would just throw chapters in at random. If that's true, that does a huge disservice to the creators and esp the writers' reputations.
What you and I saw as impenetrable would read much differently collected correctly, say from Humanoids.
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