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Post by zaku on Dec 3, 2023 13:51:30 GMT -5
Yep. The big problem is that not everyone is Alan Moore 😅 I have no proof to substantiate this, but I've always had the impression this was something fans had been demanding--addressing the issue of child endangerment with Robin--and not something Max Collins just suddenly felt inspired to write. I could be wrong. By the way, I've the impression that are the fans who want realism too, but not too much realism, you know? I mean, Batman and Daredevil should be suffering from Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy by now. I wonder how one can obtain this magical perfect mix of realism and suspension of disbelief. I assume it's a moving target. |
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Post by Calidore on Dec 3, 2023 14:48:28 GMT -5
shaxper , only tangentially related, but DC is publishing a Death in the Family Special of issue #428 that includes the alternate unused ending from that period it's called From the DC Vaults: Batman-Robin Lives and uses the original Mignola cover art for the issue. There is a blank cover variant and a foil cover variant as well. -M
Releasing a variant issue with multiple variant covers as well? Gotta admire DC's commitment to the cash grab--if you're going to do it, then go all in!
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Dec 3, 2023 16:22:39 GMT -5
I have no proof to substantiate this, but I've always had the impression this was something fans had been demanding--addressing the issue of child endangerment with Robin--and not something Max Collins just suddenly felt inspired to write. I could be wrong. By the way, I've the impression that are the fans who want realism too, but not too much realism, you know? I mean, Batman and Daredevil should be suffering from Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy by now. I wonder how one can obtain this magical perfect mix of realism and suspension of disbelief. I assume it's a moving target. Rick Jones should have been in a physical and mental wreck by about his third appearance given how often he was smacked around by The Hulk. |
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Post by zaku on Dec 3, 2023 17:14:28 GMT -5
By the way, I've the impression that are the fans who want realism too, but not too much realism, you know? I mean, Batman and Daredevil should be suffering from Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy by now. I wonder how one can obtain this magical perfect mix of realism and suspension of disbelief. I assume it's a moving target. Rick Jones should have been in a physical and mental wreck by about his third appearance given how often he was smacked around by The Hulk. Let's say 90% of the characters would already be dead. I mean, Hawkeye in Avengers routinely fights people who can level the city with a thought. Actually, most superheroes could be taken out with a bullet. |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Dec 3, 2023 21:53:54 GMT -5
shaxper, only tangentially related, but DC is publishing a Death in the Family Special of issue #428 that includes the alternate unused ending from that period it's called From the DC Vaults: Batman-Robin Lives and uses the original Mignola cover art for the issue. There is a blank cover variant and a foil cover variant as well. Yup. Already have all three variants pre-ordered  |
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Post by MRPs_Missives on Dec 3, 2023 22:03:38 GMT -5
shaxper, only tangentially related, but DC is publishing a Death in the Family Special of issue #428 that includes the alternate unused ending from that period it's called From the DC Vaults: Batman-Robin Lives and uses the original Mignola cover art for the issue. There is a blank cover variant and a foil cover variant as well. Yup. Already have all three variants pre-ordered I only preordered the regular cover. Conan seems to be the only thing that I seem to order variants for these days (though I did get an extra cover on Red Sonja #1 because there was a Mignola cover). -M |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Dec 3, 2023 22:08:17 GMT -5
Yup. Already have all three variants pre-ordered I only preordered the regular cover. Conan seems to be the only thing that I seem to order variants for these days (though I did get an extra cover on Red Sonja #1 because there was a Mignola cover). -M I never ever care about variants, but this story is deeply and irrationally personal to me, so of course I'm going to be a completist. |
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Post by shaxper on Dec 16, 2023 12:40:55 GMT -5
United States, 2023 (all three covers of Robin lives! alternate version)  (Though difficult to convey in the photo, the middle copy has a foil cover) This is an alternate version of #428, intended to look as the original book would have if the vote to kill Jason Todd had failed. No such edition actually existed, though the alternate panels were completed at the time. I review the issue in greater detail here. |
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Post by shaxper on Feb 12, 2024 18:33:04 GMT -5
United States, 2024 (Robin Lives! second printings)  The lefthand cover is a little silly, as that panel is most of what readers who had never seen this version of the story before were buying it to see. It also clearly wasn't intended to be a cover, and (really) any cover that isn't using the Mignola art is missing out on a key aspect of what made this story arc so memorable. |
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Post by chadwilliam on Feb 12, 2024 20:17:50 GMT -5
United States, 2024 (Robin Lives! second printings) The lefthand cover is a little silly, as that panel is most of what readers who had never seen this version of the story before were buying it to see. It also clearly wasn't intended to be a cover, and (really) any cover that isn't using the Mignola art is missing out on a key aspect of what made this story arc so memorable. As an interior image it looks great, but to me that cover says: 'Robin is dead and Batman is nuts'. Look at him - he's looking at the reader. "Say hi to the kids, Robin! What's that? 'Holy naptime?' Oh ho ho, Robin you kidder you! Wh-why you crying kids? What? Nooooo, that's crazy talk! Of course he's alive! What are you running for?" |
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Post by shaxper on Feb 12, 2024 20:35:59 GMT -5
oks great, but to me that cover says: 'Robin is dead and Batman is nuts'. Look at him - he's looking at the reader. "Say hi to the kids, Robin! What's that? 'Holy naptime?' Oh ho ho, Robin you kidder you! Wh-why you crying kids? What? Nooooo, that's crazy talk! Of course he's alive! What are you running for?" I've hated that panel since the first time I saw it. Starlin was 100% confident Robin wouldn't live, and I have to wonder if Aparo felt the same and this panel wasn't a little tongue in cheek. "Sure Jason was closer to the bomb than his mom, and she died. He's alive anyway!" I don't think anyone was ever supposed to see this panel. |
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Post by chadwilliam on Feb 12, 2024 23:26:02 GMT -5
After not sparing the gruesomeness involved in the crowbar scene, I wonder what went through Aparo's mind when he realized that not only would he have to follow that up with Robin being subsequently blown up, but having to draw a sequence in which he survives both catastrophes? If Aparo thought of his characters as actors in a play and himself as the director dictating how they should look, act, feel, etc. what possible direction could he have given Batman here had he asked how he should play that "He's Alive!!" scene?
Batman: How is Robin still in one piece after all of this?
Aparo: I have no idea.
Batman: Did the explosion somehow reverse the effects of the crowbar?
Aparo: I don't know. Maybe?
Batman: Should I be euphoric that he's alive? Baffled? Should I just slap myself because I know this has to be a dream? Suspicious that the whole thing is a joke?
Aparo: ...let's just get this over with.
In other words, Aparo did the best he could with Starlin's script. Not that the edition which did get released was much better. Batman checking the pulse on Robin after he's been bludgeoned with a crowbar for ten minutes and then blown to pieces? Batman #428 should have been Batman going around the checking the pulse on a charred tooth, then checking the pulse on a tuft of hair, then a part of his cape...
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Post by shaxper on Feb 13, 2024 7:48:03 GMT -5
Further evidence that they never intended for Jason to live: how would you rationalize the title of the storyline? Jason's biological mom, who sold him out to Joker, was somehow "family" and the entire centerpiece of this storyline even though her death is pretty much passed over and forgotten really quickly in this issue, never to be revisited in this nor the issue that follows?
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Post by chintzybeatnik on Apr 3, 2024 13:42:41 GMT -5
DC Vault: Death in the Family: Robin Lives! is a four part series by JM DeMatteis and Rick Leonardi coming in JulyFigured it was coming but not quite what I was expecting.   |
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Post by shaxper on Apr 3, 2024 13:58:56 GMT -5
DC Vault: Death in the Family: Robin Lives! is a four part series by JM DeMatteis and Rick Leonardi coming in JulyFigured it was coming but not quite what I was expecting. Hate the idea, but I love DeMatteis. And that sure looks like a new Mignola cover! |
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