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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2023 12:15:24 GMT -5
Going to make it official... impulse , since you said you were in, let's do this!  @draketungsten , along with anyone else who dares wander to the dark side, please feel welcome as well. I have no preconceived notions around bounding this in any way other than if it seems metal, it's fair game. From the early pioneering sounds of bands like Black Sabbath to everything that has come since. I'll start with a clip of the band that brought me into the metal fold as a young teen. This is from the demo era of Metallica in 1982 when they were still recording with Dave Mustaine on lead guitar (before he was of course kicked out and Kirk Hammett joined in time for the first record): |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2023 12:27:06 GMT -5
I tend to be more of a fan of particular metal bands than the genre as a whole, that’s about the most accurate thing I can say. I like KISS (okay, some don’t consider them metal, but my local CD store used to put KISS CDs in the metal section!). I do own some CDs from the following bands: Iron Maiden, Megadeth, and Municipal Waste. I’d like to listen to more. Released in 2012:  Alestorm is another band I check in on. From 2008:  Oh, and Black Sabbath hail from the same city as I do.  Thanks for starting this thread, @jaska. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2023 13:13:06 GMT -5
Hey driver1980 , good to have you in this thread! I think the fine line between hard rock and metal can be debated all day long (and has been), but my thought is everything and the kitchen sink counts, so KISS absolutely should be at home here in my opinion. I'm a huge fan, particularly classic 70's era but some of their later stuff too. Ace Frehley is one of my favorite guitar players of all time. I love all the bands you mentioned, but got to give a particular shout out to Municipal Waste. I first saw them in 2009 opening up for a show that Children of Bodom was playing at (the reason I went), and they totally hooked me, they've got the retro crossover/thrash thing nailed, riffs for days. I quickly bought all their albums and have continued to follow them, I don't think they've ever had a bad recording honestly. Fatal Feast is really good though, and Hazardous Mutation is probably my favorite overall. Oh, and that's really cool you're from the same city as Black Sabbath! |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2023 13:16:58 GMT -5
Last week was Stargazer week for me. Got my kid to appreciate it, and then I saw that Elizabeth the opera coach, and Youtube vocal-reaction personality, roped another opera friend into Dio appreciation:
I bring this up only because the "guest" reaction woman in the video interpreted the end of the guitar solo as the wizard ascending the tower, and then falling, which was before she got to that part in the lyrics. I know that not every reaction video is really going to be the listener's first time, so it's possible that she cheated, but regardless, I am now kicking myself because I never realized this, despite the hundreds of times I heard this song. I feel as simple-minded as AJ in the Sopranos discussing "Stopping by Woods on a Snowy Evening" with Meadow: "I thought 'black' was death."
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2023 13:29:47 GMT -5
I tend to be more of a fan of particular metal bands than the genre as a whole, that’s about the most accurate thing I can say. I like KISS (okay, some don’t consider them metal, but my local CD store used to put KISS CDs in the metal section!). I do own some CDs from the following bands: Iron Maiden, Megadeth, and Municipal Waste. I’d like to listen to more. Released in 2012: Alestorm is another band I check in on. From 2008: Oh, and Black Sabbath hail from the same city as I do. Thanks for starting this thread, @jaska . Despite my appreciation for some Manowar ("If you're not into metal, you are not my friend", "Wimps and posers, leave the hall!", etc...), I'm no metal snob. IMO, Kiss is fair game in a metal discussion. My dad, who, at least in the days before I was born, was a jazz drummer / drum teacher, conflated Kiss' theatrics with all of metal, and said real musicians don't do that crap. His influence kept me away from metal for a while. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2023 14:39:13 GMT -5
Last week was Stargazer week for me. Got my kid to appreciate it, and then I saw that Elizabeth the opera coach, and Youtube vocal-reaction personality, roped another opera friend into Dio appreciation: I bring this up only because the "guest" reaction woman in the video interpreted the end of the guitar solo as the wizard ascending the tower, and then falling, which was before she got to that part in the lyrics. I know that not every reaction video is really going to be the listener's first time, so it's possible that she cheated, but regardless, I am now kicking myself because I never realized this, despite the hundreds of times I heard this song. I feel as simple-minded as AJ in the Sopranos discussing "Stopping by Woods on a Snowy Evening" with Meadow: "I thought 'black' was death." I think I remember this reaction video! Yeah, I've listened to this song a million times over the years and I know I never made that connection haha. Dio era Rainbow, it doesn't get much better Edit: It might have been another similar reaction video as this seems recent, looks similar though! |
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Post by impulse on Jan 23, 2023 14:57:02 GMT -5
Hey driver1980 , good to have you in this thread! I think the fine line between hard rock and metal can be debated all day long (and has been), but my thought is everything and the kitchen sink counts, so KISS absolutely should be at home here in my opinion. I'm a huge fan, particularly classic 70's era but some of their later stuff too. Ace Frehley is one of my favorite guitar players of all time. Yeah, the "metal" classification can be a very contentious issue online. There's a staggering level of gate-keeping, and I say that knowing we're posting on a comic book forum, so that's saying something. I personally take a more inclusive view, and I think metal is one of those flavors that is strong enough that if there is any of it in something, it's fair game to include in discussions. Both in terms of the origins and where the line blurs between rock and metal, but also in the many many many divergent sub-genres that splintered from both, fused back together, split again, and kept going. I'd draw the line at conflating pure punk bands with metal because not all music with heavy guitars and harsh vocals is necessarily metal, and I get that punk has its own gatekeepers and scene. That said, it gets REALLY hard on the edges because of how much cross-pollination there's been between metal and punk since the 80s. For purposes of this thread, in my opinion if there's a trace of metal in the sound and you want to bring them up, go for it. Last week was Stargazer week for me. Got my kid to appreciate it, and then I saw that Elizabeth the opera coach, and Youtube vocal-reaction personality, roped another opera friend into Dio appreciation: I bring this up only because the "guest" reaction woman in the video interpreted the end of the guitar solo as the wizard ascending the tower, and then falling, which was before she got to that part in the lyrics. I know that not every reaction video is really going to be the listener's first time, so it's possible that she cheated, but regardless, I am now kicking myself because I never realized this, despite the hundreds of times I heard this song. I feel as simple-minded as AJ in the Sopranos discussing "Stopping by Woods on a Snowy Evening" with Meadow: "I thought 'black' was death." Oh, I love the Charismatic Voice. She has a very genuine-seeming enthusiasm and love for the rock and metal she is seeing. I don't know if it's real or all a put-on, but it's a joy to watch, and we metal heads love external validation of our music. She is in love with Dio and is currently on a big exploration with Metallica. driver1980Glad to have you here! I like Municipal Waste, too. I mostly listen to their albums The Last Rager and The Art of Partying. I haven't disliked any of their albums I've heard, though. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2023 15:12:29 GMT -5
Great points about gate-keeping, the definition of metal and so much else, impulse . I must admit, I felt a certain amount of smugness (humorously speaking, that is) when some dismissed KISS as metal. HMV, the main outlet in the UK for selling CDs, must have considered them metal because their CDs were always in the metal section and not the rock section. I like to be inclusive. I mean, I don’t really follow Johnny Cash, but that’s a guy you might not necessarily put into a pigeonhole. Same with some metal and rock bands. I mean, “Beth” on the KISS album Destroyer won’t sound like a metal song, but “God of Thunder” certainly will! One debate (friendly) I saw was whether Deep Purple and Led Zeppelin were metal bands. I’d be inclined to say no in the truest sense, but then, things are’t clear-cut. I like metal, but rock begat metal, and blues begat rock, and some things aren’t clear cut. I just apply the HMV test: if a CD is in their metal section, and HMV employees probably know their stuff, then it’s metal. And it’s interesting to think about the roots of stuff, I mean “Helter Skelter” by the Beatles is quite loud, isn’t it? Also, and I wish I had bookmarked it, I watched a YouTube video once, which played some late 50s songs which some said could be “metal” in one sense - or the roots of metal at least. Always fun. Good to see some Municipal Waste fans here. |
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Post by impulse on Jan 23, 2023 15:21:46 GMT -5
Yeah, I think it's especially heard to draw the line between rock and metal early on, since it pretty much was blues-based hard rock, just a liiiiiitle bit harder. I know that's an over-simplification, but it illustrates the point well. While I would struggle to call Deep Purple and Led Zeppelin "metal bands" explicitly, they absolutely had their moments and were massively informative and influential on the metal bands that came after. Led Zeppelin has metal in their name, for goodness sake.  A lot of bands back in the 60s and 70s had their moments. I put together a playlist of "proto-thrash" songs by rock bands, and it just further illustrates how muddy the line is. Listen to Stone Cold Crazy by Queen in 1974. That's a ripping thrash song. It's so hard that Metallica covered it, and I think Queen's version hits harder. Also see Brighton Rock on the same album. That song is more of a mishmash, but the middle section is a chugging riff mashup of metal mayhem. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2023 16:18:22 GMT -5
You guys are all making great points about the birth of what we now call metal, it was absolutely an evolution and you can point to so many "proto-moments" that contributed along the way.
Another example is Montrose's self-titled debut album from 1973, which was a big influence on Van Halen who in turn influenced so many bands from the 80's. Tell me this doesn't already (again 1973) have that hard rocking sound:
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Post by impulse on Jan 23, 2023 16:26:35 GMT -5
I'd have believed this was a hair band if you hadn't told me until the vocals come in. The 70s aesthetic is more prominent once everything kicks in, but that intro... you can smell the hairspray.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2023 16:38:53 GMT -5
I'd have believed this was a hair band if you hadn't told me until the vocals come in. The 70s aesthetic is more prominent once everything kicks in, but that intro... you can smell the hairspray. Totally agree, and that's actually a young Sammy Hagar on vocals! |
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Post by berkley on Jan 23, 2023 20:42:59 GMT -5
From what I remember as a kid, Deep Purple, Black Sabbath, and Led Zeppelin were all three considered metal back in the day and that's how I think of them, though I do understand the term has taken on a new meaning for fans today. I lost track of the genre around the time Ozzy left Sabbath and Deep Purple broke up for the first time, but I intend to go back and listen to more of what came next - the Dio-era Sabbath, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, etc. I haven't heard a whole lot of that stuff but enough to think there's a pretty good chance I'll like it, as it sounds as if it grew directly from the earlier stuff I do like.
Where later loses me is when it gets into the hair metal of the 1980s and the thrash stuff. I've tried it here and there but neither has really clicked with me. Obviously no criticism mean towards fans who do enjoy it.
Getting back to the early 1970s, one of my favourites beyond the "Big 3" already mentioned was Uriah Heep: again, probably would be thought of as hard rock or just plain rock today but definitely included under the metal banner back then. I only know their records up to and including Sweet Freedom, so I can<t comment on what came after, but I love all those earlier ones - nice keyboards, inventive bass lines, and, above all, great melodies.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2023 21:59:31 GMT -5
From what I remember as a kid, Deep Purple, Black Sabbath, and Led Zeppelin were all three considered metal back in the day and that's how I think of them, though I do understand the term has taken on a new meaning for fans today. I lost track of the genre around the time Ozzy left Sabbath and Deep Purple broke up for the first time, but I intend to go back and listen to more of what came next - the Dio-era Sabbath, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, etc. I haven't heard a whole lot of that stuff but enough to think there's a pretty good chance I'll like it, as it sounds as if it grew directly from the earlier stuff I do like. Dio fronted Sabbath not only brought his distinctive vocals, but truly brought new life and energy to Iommi. Ozzy era Sabbath had such an amazing run through Sabotage, but those last 2 albums are a lot harder for me to go back and revisit. Never Say Die! in particular I remember Ozzy just trashing early on in his solo career saying how much he hated that one. But Heaven and Hell and Mob Rules are both killer albums, some of the best Sabbath ever made IMO. For Iron Maiden, I would say don't miss the first 2 albums with Paul Di'Anno, lots of great stuff on those especially as a bridge from the 70's (there are some of us who even prefer that era!), and for Dickinson era I'm a little partial to Piece of Mind, but I would say anything up through Powerslave at least initially. Later material is good too, but more keyboards and "80's sound" (like a lot of other bands at that point, Priest did the same thing around that time). And for Judas Priest, highly recommend the live Unleashed in the East from 1979 if you want to hear them absolutely on top of the world (IMO of course). Les Binks was still on drums at that point and their music still had a little more complexity to it. If it doesn't grab you, heading back to their 1976 Sad Wings of Destiny is also recommended (less "heavy" but musically amazing). And if it does grab you, proceed right to 1980 and British Steel, chock full of some of their catchiest hits but a little more simplified in their songwriting approach at that point. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Jan 23, 2023 22:10:23 GMT -5
I like a fair share of hard rock/heavy metal/whatever you want to call it. Stuff like Steppenwolf ("heavy metal thunder...."), a little Deep Purple, some Zeppelin (not enough for dire hard Zep fans, though). Love a lot of the Glam Rock bands that kind of overlap with all of that, too, like Queen and Slade, The Sweet, Mud. Of course, AC/DC, Judas Priest, Black Sabbath, Blue Oyster Cult, KISS, some Rainbow, Motley Crue, Def Leppard, Iron Maiden, Dio solo (and with Sabbath), Scorpions; a little bit of some of the Hair Metal bands. Quiet Riot, though they owed their career to Slade. Billy Idol fits in there, if you ask me. I like early Van Halen more than the 1984 and beyond stuff, which gets lumped in there. The Kinks who helped launch a lot of that.
Of the bands I have the most albums of, you will find Queen, Blue Oyster Cult, Iron Maiden, along with INXS, Blondie, Bowie, Pat Benatar, Dire Straits and The English Beat. Never solely metal, but a lot of it.
Good movie and magazine, too!
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@draketungsten , along with anyone else who dares wander to the dark side, please feel welcome as well.
