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Post by codystarbuck on Jan 23, 2023 22:12:46 GMT -5
ps Lot of that early harder sound too, like Link Wray, Dick Dale, Davie Allen & the Arrows. Then, the psychedelic crowd crowd, including Steppenwolf, Jefferson Airplane, and Jimi Hendrix.
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Post by berkley on Jan 23, 2023 22:48:55 GMT -5
From what I remember as a kid, Deep Purple, Black Sabbath, and Led Zeppelin were all three considered metal back in the day and that's how I think of them, though I do understand the term has taken on a new meaning for fans today. I lost track of the genre around the time Ozzy left Sabbath and Deep Purple broke up for the first time, but I intend to go back and listen to more of what came next - the Dio-era Sabbath, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, etc. I haven't heard a whole lot of that stuff but enough to think there's a pretty good chance I'll like it, as it sounds as if it grew directly from the earlier stuff I do like. Dio fronted Sabbath not only brought his distinctive vocals, but truly brought new life and energy to Iommi. Ozzy era Sabbath had such an amazing run through Sabotage, but those last 2 albums are a lot harder for me to go back and revisit. Never Say Die! in particular I remember Ozzy just trashing early on in his solo career saying how much he hated that one. But Heaven and Hell and Mob Rules are both killer albums, some of the best Sabbath ever made IMO. For Iron Maiden, I would say don't miss the first 2 albums with Paul Di'Anno, lots of great stuff on those especially as a bridge from the 70's (there are some of us who even prefer that era!), and for Dickinson era I'm a little partial to Piece of Mind, but I would say anything up through Powerslave at least initially. Later material is good too, but more keyboards and "80's sound" (like a lot of other bands at that point, Priest did the same thing around that time). And for Judas Priest, highly recommend the live Unleashed in the East from 1979 if you want to hear them absolutely on top of the world (IMO of course). Les Binks was still on drums at that point and their music still had a little more complexity to it. If it doesn't grab you, heading back to their 1976 Sad Wings of Destiny is also recommended (less "heavy" but musically amazing). And if it does grab you, proceed right to 1980 and British Steel, chock full of some of their catchiest hits but a little more simplified in their songwriting approach at that point.
Yes, I forgot about those last two Ozzy-era Sabbath albums: I only know Sabotage and the earlier ones, so I mis-spoke when I said after Ozzy left, it was actually before that.
Thanks for the recommendations. I would likely start with Sad Wings for Judas Priest - who could resist that title?
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Post by impulse on Jan 23, 2023 22:49:22 GMT -5
From what I remember as a kid, Deep Purple, Black Sabbath, and Led Zeppelin were all three considered metal back in the day and that's how I think of them, though I do understand the term has taken on a new meaning for fans today. I lost track of the genre around the time Ozzy left Sabbath and Deep Purple broke up for the first time, but I intend to go back and listen to more of what came next - the Dio-era Sabbath, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, etc. I haven't heard a whole lot of that stuff but enough to think there's a pretty good chance I'll like it, as it sounds as if it grew directly from the earlier stuff I do like. Where later loses me is when it gets into the hair metal of the 1980s and the thrash stuff. I've tried it here and there but neither has really clicked with me. Obviously no criticism mean towards fans who do enjoy it. Getting back to the early 1970s, one of my favourites beyond the "Big 3" already mentioned was Uriah Heep: again, probably would be thought of as hard rock or just plain rock today but definitely included under the metal banner back then. I only know their records up to and including Sweet Freedom, so I can<t comment on what came after, but I love all those earlier ones - nice keyboards, inventive bass lines, and, above all, great melodies. You're absolutely right. I didn't mean to downplay historical understanding. Totally agree that stuff like Zep, Deep Purple, etc. were called heavy metal at the time, and they absolutely were for the time. I meant more in full historical context looking back at a full-bodied genre. Musical genres just don't fit neatly, separated into tight, discrete containers that don't overlap at all, no matter how much some elitists on the internet want them to. It was absolutely a gradual, messy, overlapping progression with no "line in the sand" so to speak of. I will take this opportunity to paraphrase two of my favorite quotes about the genres. "While no one can say for sure when the first true 'heavy metal song' came out, it definitely was not after Black Sabbath by Black Sabbath." "It's hard to pinpoint where exactly the line is between hard rock and metal, but the line definitely runs straight through the middle Alice in Chains Dirt album." |
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Post by berkley on Jan 23, 2023 22:55:51 GMT -5
I like a fair share of hard rock/heavy metal/whatever you want to call it. Stuff like Steppenwolf ("heavy metal thunder...."), a little Deep Purple, some Zeppelin (not enough for dire hard Zep fans, though). Love a lot of the Glam Rock bands that kind of overlap with all of that, too, like Queen and Slade, The Sweet, Mud. Of course, AC/DC, Judas Priest, Black Sabbath, Blue Oyster Cult, KISS, some Rainbow, Motley Crue, Def Leppard, Iron Maiden, Dio solo (and with Sabbath), Scorpions; a little bit of some of the Hair Metal bands. Quiet Riot, though they owed their career to Slade. Billy Idol fits in there, if you ask me. I like early Van Halen more than the 1984 and beyond stuff, which gets lumped in there. The Kinks who helped launch a lot of that. Of the bands I have the most albums of, you will find Queen, Blue Oyster Cult, Iron Maiden, along with INXS, Blondie, Bowie, Pat Benatar, Dire Straits and The English Beat. Never solely metal, but a lot of it. Good movie and magazine, too!
I think I recall Blue Oyster Cult and Slade being included in the metal conversations back in the early 1970s, as was Queen for their first two albums. I'm a big fan of all three, though I've never been able to find any original Slade albums, just their "Best of" or greatest hits compilation.
The glam/glitter scene was an entirely different thing to me though there was some cross-influence, of course. The only Bowie album that sounds at all metal to me is The Man Who Sold the World - his first great masterpiece, IMO.
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Post by berkley on Jan 23, 2023 23:11:57 GMT -5
From what I remember as a kid, Deep Purple, Black Sabbath, and Led Zeppelin were all three considered metal back in the day and that's how I think of them, though I do understand the term has taken on a new meaning for fans today. I lost track of the genre around the time Ozzy left Sabbath and Deep Purple broke up for the first time, but I intend to go back and listen to more of what came next - the Dio-era Sabbath, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, etc. I haven't heard a whole lot of that stuff but enough to think there's a pretty good chance I'll like it, as it sounds as if it grew directly from the earlier stuff I do like. Where later loses me is when it gets into the hair metal of the 1980s and the thrash stuff. I've tried it here and there but neither has really clicked with me. Obviously no criticism mean towards fans who do enjoy it. Getting back to the early 1970s, one of my favourites beyond the "Big 3" already mentioned was Uriah Heep: again, probably would be thought of as hard rock or just plain rock today but definitely included under the metal banner back then. I only know their records up to and including Sweet Freedom, so I can<t comment on what came after, but I love all those earlier ones - nice keyboards, inventive bass lines, and, above all, great melodies. You're absolutely right. I didn't mean to downplay historical understanding. Totally agree that stuff like Zep, Deep Purple, etc. were called heavy metal at the time, and they absolutely were for the time. I meant more in full historical context looking back at a full-bodied genre. Musical genres just don't fit neatly, separated into tight, discrete containers that don't overlap at all, no matter how much some elitists on the internet want them to. It was absolutely a gradual, messy, overlapping progression with no "line in the sand" so to speak of. I will take this opportunity to paraphrase two of my favorite quotes about the genres. "While no one can say for sure when the first true 'heavy metal song' came out, it definitely was not after Black Sabbath by Black Sabbath." "It's hard to pinpoint where exactly the line is between hard rock and metal, but the line definitely runs straight through the middle Alice in Chains Dirt album."
I used to have a book called "The 500 Greatest Heavy Metal Albums of All Time", or something like that. I forget the writer's name but it was a fun read, he had an entertaining style. However, it became pretty clear after reading a few entries or even just skimming through the list that he was basically using the term "heavy metal" to mean just about anything he liked. If he was using any criteria at all besides simply likes and dislikes, it was more to do with attitude than any musical qualities, even subjective ones like "heaviness". I remember he had a Teena Marie album on there.
I'm guilty of that too, I suppose, in a less extreme way - when I say Bowie's Man Who Sold the World sounds "metal" to me, it's a pretty subjective feeling, though I do think there's something about the music and not just the darkness of the lyrics that's contributing to that feeling. Whereas an album like Aladdin Sane is just as loud and hard but doesn't feel metal to me - hard rock, yes, but metal, no.
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Post by codystarbuck on Jan 23, 2023 23:17:46 GMT -5
You're absolutely right. I didn't mean to downplay historical understanding. Totally agree that stuff like Zep, Deep Purple, etc. were called heavy metal at the time, and they absolutely were for the time. I meant more in full historical context looking back at a full-bodied genre. Musical genres just don't fit neatly, separated into tight, discrete containers that don't overlap at all, no matter how much some elitists on the internet want them to. It was absolutely a gradual, messy, overlapping progression with no "line in the sand" so to speak of. I will take this opportunity to paraphrase two of my favorite quotes about the genres. "While no one can say for sure when the first true 'heavy metal song' came out, it definitely was not after Black Sabbath by Black Sabbath." "It's hard to pinpoint where exactly the line is between hard rock and metal, but the line definitely runs straight through the middle Alice in Chains Dirt album."
I used to have a book called "The 500 Greatest Heavy Metal Albums of All Time", or something like that. I forget the writer's name but it was a fun read, he had an entertaining style. However, it became pretty clear after reading a few entries or even just skimming through the list that he was basically using the term "heavy metal" to mean just about anything he liked. If he was using any criteria at all besides simply likes and dislikes, it was more to do with attitude than any musical qualities, even subjective ones like "heaviness". I remember he had a Teena Marie album on there.
I'm guilty of that too, I suppose, in a less extreme way - when I say Bowie's Man Who Sold the World sounds "metal" to me, it's a pretty subjective feeling, though I do think there's something about the music and not just the darkness of the lyrics that's contributing to that feeling. Whereas an album like Aladdin Sane is just as loud and hard but doesn't feel metal to me - hard rock, yes, but metal, no.
She wore a lot of heavy metal..... |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2023 23:22:57 GMT -5
It was absolutely a gradual, messy, overlapping progression with no "line in the sand" so to speak of. I will take this opportunity to paraphrase two of my favorite quotes about the genres. "While no one can say for sure when the first true 'heavy metal song' came out, it definitely was not after Black Sabbath by Black Sabbath." That's a keeper. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2023 1:07:49 GMT -5
Nothing like inviting in some (annoying) people who are selling their religion (not naming it) while blasting this playlist from Iron Maiden
Tracklist:
01 – Run To The Hills (2015 Remastered Version)
02 – The Trooper
03 – The Number Of The Beast (2015 Remastered Version)
04 – Fear Of The Dark
05 – Hallowed Be Thy Name (2015 Remastered Version)
06 – Aces High (2015 Remastered Version)
07 – Wasted Years (2015 Remaster)
08 – 2 Minutes To Midnight (2015 Remastered Version)
09 – Can I Play With Madness (2015 Remastered Version)
10 – Flight Of Icarus
11 – Children Of The Damned (2015 Remastered Version)
12 – The Evil That Men Do (2015 Remaster)
13 – 22 Acacia Avenue (2015 Remaster)
14 – Where Eagles Dare
15 – Be Quick Or Be Dead
16 – Phantom Of The Opera
17 – Wrathchild (2015 Remastered Version)
18 – Revelations
19 – Iron Maiden
20 – Powerslave (2015 Remastered Version)
21 – Running Free
22 – The Wicker Man (2015 Remastered Version)
23 – The Prisoner (2015 Remastered Version)
24 – Rime Of The Ancient Mariner (2015 Remastered Version)
25 – Stranger In A Strange Land (2015 Remastered Version)
26 – Bring Your Daughter…To The Slaughter (2015 Remastered Version)
27 – The Clairvoyant (2015 Remastered Version)
28 – Purgatory (2015 Remastered Version)
29 – Invaders (2015 Remastered Version)
30 – Wasting Love
31 – Seventh Son Of A Seventh Son (2015 Remastered Version)
32 – Die With Your Boots On
33 – Prowler
34 – Afraid To Shoot Strangers
35 – Flash Of The Blade (2015 Remastered Version)
36 – Speed Of Light
37 – Infinite Dreams (2015 Remastered Version)
38 – Caught Somewhere In Time (2015 Remastered Version)
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2023 9:12:29 GMT -5
Straight out of 1981, the highly underrated Riot:
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Post by impulse on Jan 24, 2023 10:00:02 GMT -5
To give the thread some foundational content, and also to get some good recs for anyone here or newcomers who stumble in...and to give everyone a chance to ramble about stuff they like (the real reason we're here, right?).... What is THE BEST metal album OF ALL TIME? ? (Or one of your favorites if it's too hard to pick one)This is totally subjective of course, and no one will ever agree on a single on best of everything, but to you, what do you think is (one of) the just best-of-the-best, leaps and abounds beyond its peers or sub-genres, just one of those amazing, moment in time genre-defining (and even transcending) albums?? For me, the answer is Megadeth's Rust in Peace (original mix of course). I think this is the absolute pinnacle of that first wave of thrash bands. After they exploded onto the scene in a fireball of speed and fury, they started shifting toward more complex songwriting, adding in more progressive elements while maintaining their raw, aggressive credibility. This direction for this first batch of thrash guys peaked on Rust in Peace. It is just instantly more mature in its musical structure, more meticulously crafted and executed, and is just unrelenting in its assault. The guitar chemistry between Mustaine and Friedman is just off the charts. The "classic era" Megadeth lineup is just one of those groups in music history where all the players together far exceed the sum of their individual abilities, and even individually that is a ridiculously talented group of players. Friedman's solos are just otherwordly. His use of melody seems to magical and just outside of reach to be real, and it accentuates Mustaine's riffs. It also forced Mustaine to up his game, as this album features some of this best, most technically complex but still undeniably Dave's playing. It's just to good to be real. Highlights: Holy Wars...The Punishment due. - A basically permanent live set staple for a reason, and considered by many one of the best metal songs created. Tornado of Souls - Oft-cited as having best metal guitar solo of all time. But.... Lucretia - often overlooked by Tornado. In my opinion, the solo is at least as good as Tornado. Dave and Marty is just one of those musical pairings that is irreplaceable, and each elevates the other's already incredible ability. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2023 10:45:47 GMT -5
The greatest is either Paranoid or Sabotage. Aside from the high standard of song-writing and musicianship on display, Iommi's tone on Paranoid (not the title track so much, but the rest of the album) gives me chills like nothing else does. Sabotage's excellence is inversely proportional to the horribleness of its cover. 'Nuff said. Wait, not quite 'nuff... Sabotage is Ozzy's peak as a vocalist, and the song-writing is peak progressive Sabbath.
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Post by berkley on Jan 24, 2023 10:46:55 GMT -5
I don't think I could narrow it down to even one album per band.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2023 10:48:20 GMT -5
Highlights: Holy Wars...The Punishment due. - A basically permanent live set staple for a reason, and considered by many one of the best metal songs created. Tornado of Souls - Oft-cited as having best metal guitar solo of all time. But.... Lucretia - often overlooked by Tornado. In my opinion, the solo is at least as good as Tornado. Dave and Marty is just one of those musical pairings that is irreplaceable, and each elevates the other's already incredible ability. This casual fan prefers Lucretia to Tornado Of Souls. |
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Post by impulse on Jan 24, 2023 10:57:17 GMT -5
I don't think I could narrow it down to even one album per band. Then how about Ten of your Top albums and why? I'll take more music suggestions to try any time. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2023 11:13:19 GMT -5
I like a very wide range of metal, both eras and genres.
My favorite album of all time is Ratt's Out of the Cellar. My favorite thrash album is Metallica's Ride the Lightning, and I'm in a very tiny minority here but Megadeth's So Far, So Good...So What? is my favorite by them.
As a guitar player, my 2 biggest heroes are George Lynch from Dokken (especially Tooth and Nail through Back for the Attack era) and Alexi Laiho from Children of Bodom. Alexi is probably my closest "kindred spirit" if you will, I'm still devastated by his passing.
Children of Bodom's Hate Crew Deathroll is my favorite, the live Tokyo Warhearts is probably my second.
And yeah, I'm a Limp Bizkit fan too. There, I said it.
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? (Or one of your favorites if it's too hard to pick one)