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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2023 8:29:17 GMT -5
Dokken had one of my favourite 'Monster Ballads' called Alone Again Oh yeah, total classic, my high school band used to perform that one all the time, it was our big “ballad moment”! That song supposedly really saved Dokken back in the day. When they released their sophomore effort, it was really struggling to find commercial success, and then they finally released Alone Again as a single and it took off. You don't get much more metal than an 80" gong. And names don't get much more metal than Gong Master Sven. Now he just needs to light it on fire like Alex Van Halen!  I listened to Destruction's Cracked Brain album yesterday. It's not a highly regarded album largely because the vocalist changed and they did a couple of whack things like covering My Sharona, but I thought the guitar work was pretty good. After that, I played Voivoid's early thrash record, War and Pain, which was really good. I really like early thrash efforts back when it was still raw. Topped things off with Viol-Lence's Oppressing the Masses LP, which is a pretty good sophomore effort. I'm not a huge fan of Sean Killian's vocals but the band is great. I've got to give Oppressing the Masses a listen, I always enjoyed Eternal Nightmare a lot, I'm surprised I never made it to this one. Definitely added to the list. Also that earlier Voivod album, I think I've only listened to Killing Technology, that album had a bit of buzz on it when it came out. |
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Post by impulse on Jan 25, 2023 9:58:40 GMT -5
Side note, I promise I am not ignoring everyone but Supercat. I am trying to take my time and listen through the suggestions and respond as I can.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2023 10:31:59 GMT -5
I can definitely see the talent in Dokken, good lord. Still not really my cup of tea, but the skill is undeniable. It has a lot of that late 70s sound and early 80s big sound production, two elements/periods I dislike from genres I am generally a fan of. That production style makes Dokken unlistenable to me. It sounds artificial and removes me from the music. I remember trying to listen to my Tooth And Nail cassette as a kid, but had to abandon it. I've had Mr Scary in my metal playlist, just to represent, but that's all I can stomach. |
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Post by impulse on Jan 25, 2023 10:42:47 GMT -5
@jaska On to the Children of Bodom albums today. So far, at least instrumentally, this is more in line with my usual tastes, but I am enjoying trying to expand those! re: The newer thrash bands, yeah I have. They have some solid stuff. They don't quite scratch the itch, though. They don't have the songwriting chops or use of melody and hooks that the best of the classis thrash guys had. I am still happy new thrash is being made though. They're good for a song here and there, though not likely to put full albums on my playlists. Nothing wrong with some Limp Bizkit. Just don't listen to the lyrics. They haven't aged well, and they weren't exactly high art at the time. Symphony X - They are great, too. Hit and miss for me, but my favorites are the two-part intro of the Paradise Lost album: Oculus Ex Inferni into Set the World on Fire (The Lie of Lies). If someone asked me to define epic music, this would be my go to. I also really like Inferno (Unleash the Fire) from The Odyssey. I will eventaully dig into their full catalog again. driver1980 @rags This is kind of my big omission as metal guy, but I just can't get into Maiden. They just don't do it for me. I've tried multiple times, and I appreciate the skill. Just not my bag. That said, Powerslave is easily my favorite of their albums. Aside a good b it of this album and a few songs ( The Trooper), though, mostly just respectfully head-nod and go about my business. Stryper, while often written off, had some stellar playing and has had a shockingly good late-career resurgence. They've put out a few surprisingly good heavy/maybe power? metal albums in the last 10+ years or so. Like shockingly good. commond Hard to say for me. I think Volume 4 is my favorite Ozzy era Sabbath. General comments and responses:I agree that Blue Oyster Cult sounds at least as metal as anyone else included in those chats at the time, if not more so than anyone but Sabbath. Stylistically, absolutely more so. I hadn't heard Slade, but I can see it. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2023 11:52:59 GMT -5
@draketungsten, impulse - I totally understand the comments on the production on the Dokken albums and the 80's as a whole. Some of it is just to taste, but even as someone who loves that era, I kind of think of it as it was both the best and worst of times. It's my style of guitar tone, when recorded well (and plenty of instances during that period when it is not). The high gain Marshall tone, overdriven with some a smattering of processed effects (chorus, delay, reverb), is something maybe you had to be there, but it's still how I dial in my tones with my guitar rig. For Dokken, Tooth and Nail is rough production, I love it in spite of that, not because of it. They were not a big name band (relatively speaking) yet, but they were hungry at that point and really on fire. The songwriting is flawless to me from start to finish. On the flip side, the next album, Under Lock and Key, was much more slick in terms of production. George's guitar tone is pretty much my favorite (for that genre) of all time, and I won't get into the nerdy details, but was recorded in a very unothodox manner (a lot of layering). Even the overall production sounds a lot better to me than most modern stuff, which I tend to find way too digital/sterile. Back for the Attack was a mixed bag, sometimes the production is great, sometimes it's rough. But that said, my biggest criticism of 80's sound tends to be when the drums sound too artificial, or too much synthesizer layered in. Again, I think it's all to taste. Most importantly, loving all the exchange of favorites here, I'm picking up a bunch of stuff to check out as well! |
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Post by codystarbuck on Jan 25, 2023 12:11:33 GMT -5
Here is Slade's original version of Cum on Feel the Noize.....
and Quiet Riot's version.....
Slade's Mama Weer All Crazee Now....
and Quiet Riot....
Slade is more of the style of the Blues-oriented rock bands of the 60s, because they had similar influences; but, they were also louder and more energetic than a lot of the Glam Rock bands As Quiet Riot demonstrated, a Slade song was easily converted to a metal song. Their versions crank up the drums, more processing on the guitars. QR was not in the same league as Slade, as musicians, but they were pretty good in their own right. Slade had far greater longevity as a major act, up through their swan song album, Keep Your Hands Off My Power Supply, in the 80s (with the hit Run Runaway). Both bands split over musical differences; but, QR much earlier, as Kevin DuBrowa was causing them problems, by the time they finally found success (but after losing guitarist Randy Rhoads, to Ozzy Osbourne). DuBrow mouthed off a few times, dismissing Slade and criticism that their success was heavily based on Slade's songs. When you have 3 major hits and two of them are Slade covers, it's a pretty valid criticism. I always liked Quiet Riot; but, Condition Critical isn't as good as Metal Health and the non-Slade songs were not as good. Slade has a much wider body of work, not to mention a Christmas tradition.
Slade's last hurrah.....
Funny thing is, I was unaware of Slade, back in the 80s, until Keep Your Hands Off My Power Supply and the video for "Run Runaway," which had major MTV rotation. A little after that, I used to hear commercials for the clothing store The Merry-Go-Round, with the Slade version of "Cum On Feel the Noize," and then saw a VH1 My Generation episode, about Glam Rock, which featured Slade performing COFTN. That's when I went hunting for their music. As said before, it's hard to find the albums, in the US; just compilations. being more song-oriented, that's okay by me, because that is what I look for.
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Post by codystarbuck on Jan 25, 2023 12:24:35 GMT -5
BOC covers a lot of territory and their sound was always fluid. In general, the Eric Bloom vocals songs tend more to the Hard Rock/Heavy Metal end of things and Buck Dharma covered the more mainstream stuff ("Don't Fear The Reaper," "Burnin' For You," "Godzilla.)
Have Michael Moorcock involved and it sounds more metal, such as Black Blade, their song about Moorcock's Elric of Melnibone and Stormbringer......
Moorcock was also involved in "Veteran of the Psychic Wars," which was featured in the Heavy Metal Movie soundtrack, as well as the band's Fire Of Unknown Origin...
The actual subject of the song is Moorcock's Eternal Champion, forever cursed to fight wars, across all realities and times.
BOC also pulls out some covers, in concert and Steppenwolf's "Born to Be Wild" was a staple, for decades....
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2023 12:25:36 GMT -5
@draketungsten , impulse - I totally understand the comments on the production on the Dokken albums and the 80's as a whole. Some of it is just to taste, but even as someone who loves that era, I kind of think of it as it was both the best and worst of times. It's my style of guitar tone, when recorded well (and plenty of instances during that period when it is not). The high gain Marshall tone, overdriven with some a smattering of processed effects (chorus, delay, reverb), is something maybe you had to be there, but it's still how I dial in my tones with my guitar rig. For Dokken, Tooth and Nail is rough production, I love it in spite of that, not because of it. They were not a big name band (relatively speaking) yet, but they were hungry at that point and really on fire. The songwriting is flawless to me from start to finish. On the flip side, the next album, Under Lock and Key, was much more slick in terms of production. George's guitar tone is pretty much my favorite (for that genre) of all time, and I won't get into the nerdy details, but was recorded in a very unothodox manner (a lot of layering). Even the overall production sounds a lot better to me than most modern stuff, which I tend to find way too digital/sterile. Back for the Attack was a mixed bag, sometimes the production is great, sometimes it's rough. But that said, my biggest criticism of 80's sound tends to be when the drums sound too artificial, or too much synthesizer layered in. Again, I think it's all to taste. Most importantly, loving all the exchange of favorites here, I'm picking up a bunch of stuff to check out as well! Maybe I'll go hunting for some live Dokken... |
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Post by berkley on Jan 25, 2023 12:30:44 GMT -5
My favourite Blue Oyster Cult album is Spectres, but they're all good up to and including Imaginos. Spectres has the added twist that some of the songs are about old horror movies - most famously Godzilla, but my favourite is Nosferatu.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2023 12:57:47 GMT -5
Maybe I'll go hunting for some live Dokken... You may be dissapointed, they were not consistently very good live. Between the infighting over the years (particularly between Don the singer and George the guitar player), and the fact that George has never been consistent live, there's a lot of not great clips out there. The main live artifact from the era of albums I shared with you is the Beast From the East live album in 1988, some people actually really love it. I think it's "ok". This is them at a much younger, and raw stage of their career, playing live before the big albums to come. It's nowhere near as polished (well, relatively speaking I guess) as the stuff you heard, but I think it's a fun glimpse into the energy they had early on: |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2023 12:59:49 GMT -5
My favourite Blue Oyster Cult album is Spectres, but they're all good up to and including Imaginos. Spectres has the added twist that some of the songs are about old horror movies - most famously Godzilla, but my favourite is Nosferatu. Yes! Same here, favorite album from them, much as I love Godzilla as well, Nosferatu is such a great song. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Jan 25, 2023 13:38:24 GMT -5
My favourite Blue Oyster Cult album is Spectres, but they're all good up to and including Imaginos. Spectres has the added twist that some of the songs are about old horror movies - most famously Godzilla, but my favourite is Nosferatu. Yes! Same here, favorite album from them, much as I love Godzilla as well, Nosferatu is such a great song. Well, if you want to go that route, you can't beat "Joan Crawford Has Risen From The Grave"..... That seriously needs to be made into a movie. Joan Crawford striding down city streets, as dogs howl and policemen quiver, fires burn in the wake of her destruction, while Christina runs ahead, in terror.... I got to see BOC live, in 2005, at the Illinois State Fair (with Foghat, as the opener). They still had 3 of 5 originals (Eric Bloom, Buck Dharma and Allen Lanier). Foghat had one original left; but, were pretty good, in their own right. BOC performed Joan Crawford, which was a big hit with the crowd. We kept yelling for them to play Veteran of the Psychic Wars; but, no go. We were given the option to choose between two songs and the crowd voted for "Harvester of Eyes." |
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Post by codystarbuck on Jan 25, 2023 13:45:43 GMT -5
ps A little fun with Buck & the Mrs....
He looked a little too clean cut, for an old rocker.
BOC proving the age and guile can out rock youth and enthusiasm....
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Post by codystarbuck on Jan 25, 2023 14:30:41 GMT -5
This is a favorite later Sabbath album....
Bought it while I was in the Navy, in my Ship's Store. We would get a selection of cassettes to sell (we had a small store, the size of a Foto-Mat, which sold essentials, like cigarettes, and a few small luxury items) and it was one of the cassettes we got in. I also bought Queen's The Miracle and one of the Pet Shop Boys' albums (I have varied tastes in music. I once bought Twisted Sister, Booker T & the MGs and a Petula Clark compilation, at the same store).
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Post by impulse on Jan 25, 2023 15:48:50 GMT -5
So back on Marty Friedman, while obviously he did his usual great lead playing on Rust in Peace, have you ever heard his 1988 solo album Dragon's Kiss? As you may know, on Rust in Peace, the album was already written and actually Chris Poland was back in the band originally and even recorded some of the early takes, but replaced by Friedman in the end. Here I think you really hear Marty's full creativity (plus the Cacophony stuff he did with Jason Becker): Have I heard of Dragon's Kiss?? Sir.  Yes, it's great, as well as Cacophony. I still think his work with Megadeth is my favorite as that creative synergy pairing is just one of those all-time greats, but this effort is my favorite of his solo works overal. That production style makes Dokken unlistenable to me. It sounds artificial and removes me from the music. I remember trying to listen to my Tooth And Nail cassette as a kid, but had to abandon it. I've had Mr Scary in my metal playlist, just to represent, but that's all I can stomach. Sounds like you and I are on the same page there. @draketungsten , impulse - I totally understand the comments on the production on the Dokken albums and the 80's as a whole. Some of it is just to taste, but even as someone who loves that era, I kind of think of it as it was both the best and worst of times. It's my style of guitar tone, when recorded well (and plenty of instances during that period when it is not). The high gain Marshall tone, overdriven with some a smattering of processed effects (chorus, delay, reverb), is something maybe you had to be there, but it's still how I dial in my tones with my guitar rig. For Dokken, Tooth and Nail is rough production, I love it in spite of that, not because of it. They were not a big name band (relatively speaking) yet, but they were hungry at that point and really on fire. The songwriting is flawless to me from start to finish. On the flip side, the next album, Under Lock and Key, was much more slick in terms of production. George's guitar tone is pretty much my favorite (for that genre) of all time, and I won't get into the nerdy details, but was recorded in a very unothodox manner (a lot of layering). Even the overall production sounds a lot better to me than most modern stuff, which I tend to find way too digital/sterile. Back for the Attack was a mixed bag, sometimes the production is great, sometimes it's rough. Not to say I don't see the skill, and no knock on that classic Marshall crunch (love it). For me, it's the overall effect. I don't really like the song style and structure in late 70s rock, nor do I like the super 80s-ed out early metal sound production, and the Dokken stuff combines a lot of that. It's just unfortunately a pairing of some of the main attributes I dislike together, so it doesn't click, but man, the dude can shred. No doubt. It's kind of funny that some of my all-time favorites in the 80s thrash scene were happening at the same time and did not have as much of this somehow. Ride the Lightning is as close as Metallica got to that 80s sound with big giant drums and swimming in reverb (even though they say there isn't much reverb on the album). I prefer a "dryer" sound in my metal, though not as sterile as a lot of modern stuff is. Like with so much, balance is king. Based on today's listening, I need to explore more Children of Bodom and older Blue Oyster Cult. I largely missed the former, and really only know the latter's hits, but a skim shows this will be promising. I think some familiar ground is in order to wrap up the work day. I am thinking early Korn. I want some groove today. |
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Yes, it's great, as well as Cacophony. I still think his work with Megadeth is my favorite as that creative synergy pairing is just one of those all-time greats, but this effort is my favorite of his solo works overal.