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Post by Cei-U! on Sept 26, 2023 12:09:10 GMT -5
I obviously love analysing, and thus talking about, continuity. You don't write a CCF Guide to Earth-Two if you disdain such things. But in the end, I'd still rather read a good story that violates established continuity than a bad one that adheres faithfully to it. So, by all means, let's have fun but let's not take continuity so seriously that it sucks all the joy out of our funnybooks.
Cei-U!
I summon the rabbit hole!
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Post by Chris on Sept 26, 2023 12:12:43 GMT -5
I do love the spirit of "enjoy the story, don't worry about the continuity" and other common sense things we should all nod our heads at. BUT...I do wonder why have a forum if you don't have topics to discuss just for fun. This thread was really to talk about continuity as a topic of interest for those who enjoy thinking in that space. If I wander into a Stan Lee discussion and say "doesn't matter, they are all gone now, let's just enjoy the comics for what they are", a lot of folks would be like "get out of here!" I feel like sometimes the "long-timers" just kind of wander in, pee on things a little, high five each other (you can just feel some of those "likes" coming), and then wander off. Maybe be a part of the conversations and play along? Or don't? Sorry, I know that seems a little mean, and I really don't mean for it to be. Thanks for listening. Agree. This is a topic that's supposed to be fun. Its one thing to argue in a thread that's a critical examination - I've done it, just ask Shaxper 😄 - but this is just people goofing and having fun. |
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Post by MDG on Sept 26, 2023 12:20:07 GMT -5
Wasn't there a story that said that in one timeline, a certain blond-haired boy would be called Kamandi and in another, that boy would be called Tommy Tomorrow?Probably. All I remember is a brief scene in COIE #12 which shows Kamandi being found in his bunker by his future foster father, stating that he will grow up to be Tommy Tomorrow.
Cei-U! I summon the faulty memory!
Yeah, this is one of the few things I remember distinctly from Crisis.
On this whole topic, I tend to appreciate "no-prize" explanations that explain disconnects on their own terms rather than try to "fix" things.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2023 12:42:08 GMT -5
I do love the spirit of "enjoy the story, don't worry about the continuity" and other common sense things we should all nod our heads at. BUT...I do wonder why have a forum if you don't have topics to discuss just for fun. This thread was really to talk about continuity as a topic of interest for those who enjoy thinking in that space. If I wander into a Stan Lee discussion and say "doesn't matter, they are all gone now, let's just enjoy the comics for what they are", a lot of folks would be like "get out of here!" I feel like sometimes the "long-timers" just kind of wander in, pee on things a little, high five each other (you can just feel some of those "likes" coming), and then wander off. Maybe be a part of the conversations and play along? Or don't? Sorry, I know that seems a little mean, and I really don't mean for it to be. Thanks for listening. Agree. This is a topic that's supposed to be fun. Its one thing to argue in a thread that's a critical examination - I've done it, just ask Shaxper 😄 - but this is just people goofing and having fun. Thanks Chris, always nice to know I'm not completely alone here haha. Ah well, what can one do. I should know by now I'm never going to end up liking the threads I start, as usual, time to slip out the back door. They'll never notice lol. |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Sept 26, 2023 12:53:02 GMT -5
Agree. This is a topic that's supposed to be fun. Its one thing to argue in a thread that's a critical examination - I've done it, just ask Shaxper 😄 - but this is just people goofing and having fun. Thanks Chris, always nice to know I'm not completely alone here haha. Ah well, what can one do. I should know by now I'm never going to end up liking the threads I start, as usual, time to slip out the back door. They'll never notice lol. I'm not trying to take a Dr. Leaky during anyone's parade. I can definitely bow out. Continuity is just such a sacred cow with some people that it boggles my alleged mind. |
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Post by tarkintino on Sept 26, 2023 13:36:52 GMT -5
I do love the spirit of "enjoy the story, don't worry about the continuity" and other common sense things we should all nod our heads at. BUT...I do wonder why have a forum if you don't have topics to discuss just for fun. To that point, the creators felt the need to correct or eliminate continuity problems (amongst other 50-car pile-ups) which a maturing reader base desired. Change was not born out of thin air: just about everyone knew there was a desire to world-build a coherent universe (again, something more fans desired as the Silver turned into the Bronze Age), and holding on to every silly and/or contradictory plot was not going to allow that to happen. That said, one can say "enjoy the story," but a company trying to build a world where there's a true continuity (instead of writing in a manner similar to the random nature of Archie comics), cannot put blinders on to the fact that there are readers who also enjoy the story...when its part of a joined, coherent universe free of nonsense. |
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Post by zaku on Sept 26, 2023 16:57:34 GMT -5
I just wanted to add as a casual reader of modern DC comics, that respecting continuity is now very low on the priorities of modern writers. There have been so many reboots that no one has any idea what is truly canon for a character. The past of the characters is an à la carte menu from which the authors choose what is valid and what to ignore. And if two stories contradict each other so much that it's impossible to ignore, well, "Hypertime did it!"
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Post by wildfire2099 on Sept 26, 2023 20:11:34 GMT -5
I agree... the best Continuity is when you can build on the past to help you at a little extra to a great story... it shouldn't make it so you can't create. Alot of the fun on comics is how they get from point A to point B. Sometimes it's forced and makes you groan (I love Roy Thomas, but sometimes he just got carried away)... but sometimes its wonderful.
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 26, 2023 21:12:08 GMT -5
Continuity never bothered me, so long as the story was good and had a basic logic to it. I was never one of the "How can Hero X be here, when he was over there, less than 8 hours ago and he couldn't travel that distance." If the continuity change was resulting in a major character change, it was a different story, if it seemed contrary to the essence of said character. I preferred the James Robinson approach of trying to find a respectful way of making it work, if you can; but, if it is too much of a hassle, make a deliberate statement to push it aside for something better. That worked pretty well in Starman. If we start talking something like a Brad Meltzer hatchett job, then it matters a whole lot more. However, that falls under, "if the story is good," which that ain't, in my book.
Your mileage may vary.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2023 13:14:36 GMT -5
Thanks Chris, always nice to know I'm not completely alone here haha. Ah well, what can one do. I should know by now I'm never going to end up liking the threads I start, as usual, time to slip out the back door. They'll never notice lol. I'm not trying to take a Dr. Leaky during anyone's parade. I can definitely bow out. Continuity is just such a sacred cow with some people that it boggles my alleged mind. Nah, you’re all good, my comment wasn’t even meant to be directed at you. I got cranky yesterday, my apologies. I have some “grumpycat” moments at times. No need to bow out unless you want to. |
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Post by tonebone on Sept 28, 2023 15:41:01 GMT -5
Continuity is such a double edged sword...
As a kid, I loved when things tied together, especially fairly recent things... Superman runs into a villain he had a dust-up with earlier in the year, and they reference it, or Batman's solution to a problem is related to something that happened a few issues earlier. It was fun to know it was all part of some larger tapestry, and that what you were reading now, might someday be referenced in a future story. It sort of gave the material weight.
I was less thrilled about too-clever-for-its-own-good continuity where 7-year-old me is reading Superman and there's a vague reference to something and there's a footnote telling me "to get the full story, check out Action #11". Yeah, let me go into my vault and look that right up. Roy Thomas was a real believer in this kind of thing, especially at DC. Even then, it felt like a slavish adherence to things long forgotten by most.
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Post by driver1980 on Sept 30, 2023 15:37:53 GMT -5
I was thinking about how some fictional universes aren’t burdened by continuity due to having been at multiple publishers.
Case in point: G.I. Joe. IDW doesn’t have to adhere to any continuity that Devil’s Due Publishing or Marvel did. They are free to, but they aren’t burdened with it. In way, I envy that because if IDW wants to do something specific with, say, Serpentor or Cobra Commander, they don’t have to worry about what Devil’s Due Publishing and Marvel did 20, 30 or 40 years ago.
Obviously, that isn’t allowed by a company that has owned a Superman or Spider-Man for decades - and always will.
Masters of the Universe is another one. There was a UK comic (published by Egmont) from 1986 to 1988, and it featured original stories. It didn’t need to concern itself with what DC had done. And I believe some of the stories that featured in the mini-comics given away with Mattel’s figures differed from the comics; He-Man seemed more akin to a barbarian in one mini-comic I read. So when Egmont began publishing a comic in 1986, their editors didn’t need to make it all line up with DC, and DC didn’t have to adhere to Mattel’s mini-comics, etc, etc.
So freedom is good, I guess. Had G.I. Joe been a DC comic since its inception, I guess today there’d be debates about how the latest arc fits in with something from 1985, 1983, etc. Instead, IDW need only concern itself with its own G.I. Joe universe.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2023 16:45:33 GMT -5
I was thinking about how some fictional universes aren’t burdened by continuity due to having been at multiple publishers. Case in point: G.I. Joe. IDW doesn’t have to adhere to any continuity that Devil’s Due Publishing or Marvel did. They are free to, but they aren’t burdened with it. In way, I envy that because if IDW wants to do something specific with, say, Serpentor or Cobra Commander, they don’t have to worry about what Devil’s Due Publishing and Marvel did 20, 30 or 40 years ago. Obviously, that isn’t allowed by a company that has owned a Superman or Spider-Man for decades - and always will. Masters of the Universe is another one. There was a UK comic (published by Egmont) from 1986 to 1988, and it featured original stories. It didn’t need to concern itself with what DC had done. And I believe some of the stories that featured in the mini-comics given away with Mattel’s figures differed from the comics; He-Man seemed more akin to a barbarian in one mini-comic I read. So when Egmont began publishing a comic in 1986, their editors didn’t need to make it all line up with DC, and DC didn’t have to adhere to Mattel’s mini-comics, etc, etc. So freedom is good, I guess. Had G.I. Joe been a DC comic since its inception, I guess today there’d be debates about how the latest arc fits in with something from 1985, 1983, etc. Instead, IDW need only concern itself with its own G.I. Joe universe. Both of those properties are long-time big favorites for me, and I never really thought about it now until you mentioned that continuity freedom, but I totally agree with you. I think that freedom has served both of them well. |
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Post by driver1980 on Sept 30, 2023 17:16:54 GMT -5
Also, and this applies to animated incarnations too, some of those G.I. Joe and Masters of the Universe characters probably have 2-3 origins. I’m sure Cobra Commander has 3 origins (or 3 different back stories). I can think of 2, possibly 3, origins for Serpentor. So that’s freedom that would benefit those properties.
In my view, aim for continuity when you can. Different incarnations don’t need to. Felix Leiter met a certain fate in both a book and a film, but with slightly different circumstances. It’d be silly to try and get 007’s book and film universes to match up, so I guess they never needed to try.
Obviously, DC and Marvel can’t do that. Or can they? Personally, I am of the belief that the best approach is to ignore past continuity by not mentioning it when it becomes convenient. I’m gonna presume, for instance, that the likes of Reed Richards isn’t mentioning his WWII exploits anymore.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2023 17:27:32 GMT -5
Also, and this applies to animated incarnations too, some of those G.I. Joe and Masters of the Universe characters probably have 2-3 origins. I’m sure Cobra Commander has 3 origins (or 3 different back stories). I can think of 2, possibly 3, origins for Serpentor. So that’s freedom that would benefit those properties. In my view, aim for continuity when you can. Different incarnations don’t need to. Felix Leiter met a certain fate in both a book and a film, but with slightly different circumstances. It’d be silly to try and get 007’s book and film universes to match up, so I guess they never needed to try. Obviously, DC and Marvel can’t do that. Or can they? Personally, I am of the belief that the best approach is to ignore past continuity by not mentioning it when it becomes convenient. I’m gonna presume, for instance, that the likes of Reed Richards isn’t mentioning his WWII exploits anymore. Again that hits home for me. Take MOTU: It started for me with the toys and cartoon as a kid. The cartoon forms so much of my "classic impressions" of the property even though I've appreciated other takes later on. Besides just exploring a different tone and overall approach, certain characters like Faker never really got the full treatment, and poor Stinkor was considered too big a joke to appear. But others have treated him as quite a viable character (which I prefer). I got the full original minicomics collection years ago, and actually THAT comic book treatment was more sophisticated than the cartoon, Teela was quite different (more of a warrior) and the mythos overall had other differences from the show but overall I thought they were great. They happily co-exist for me, I don't even remotely try to think of how to reconcile continuity. |
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