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Post by driver1980 on Mar 7, 2024 8:49:27 GMT -5
I can’t remember where I read it, but I have - on probably at least 3 occasions - seen some criticism of Spider-Man’s 1970s exploits. Personally, I find it silly how anyone could condemn every Spidey tale from January 1970 to December 1979. But I know runs can be critiqued. (I should add that any criticism - of anything here - is always well-written and nuanced, I am more referring to the likes of ‘social media’).
Might I, your honour, make a case for Spidey’s 70s exploits being in contention for one of his best runs? Maybe not the best run, but one of (I realise an entire decade doesn’t necessarily feature the same editor, writer and art team).
So, here’s my arguments:
The decade did see the introduction of some iconic villains who, love them or hate them, have stood the test of time, and do have their fans. I can’t honestly state that I break any speed records to rush to a comic store to acquire a back issue featuring Morbius or the Jackal, but there were some pretty solid villains introduced; I’ll always prefer those who were introduced in the 60s, but like with Batman’s 1980s run, I appreciate any series that doesn’t rest on its supervillain laurels - and at least tries to introduce compelling new villains.
I would argue that some of the most significant character development for Peter Parker, and indeed others, occurred in 70s stories. Some of it felt more “organic” than the character development and dynamics in the 60s era.
I like that it tackled social issues without necessarily being too preachy.
John Romita and Ross Andru may well be my favourite Spidey artists.
Storylines that occurred in that era have had ramifications for decades, although people’s mileage may vary. Some may like the clone thing, Gwen Stacy’s death, etc. Some might not. But it’s been influential.
Over many years, I’ve reached the point - thanks to the likes of the “Essential” range - where I’m pretty much up to speed on the 70s Spidey era. And I have to say, I do find the majority of it more readable than some of the mid-to-late 60s stuff. Not necessarily better in any vast way, but definitely more readable, accessible and believable. And I say that with all due respect to Stan Lee and Steve Ditko.
Defining decades can be hard. Years ago, a friend told me that social occurrences and the like in the 60s definitely didn’t end on 31st December, 1969. I get that. I love 80s movies, but 80s-style movies, such as the buddy cop drama, didn’t necessarily all end on 31st December, 1989. Some early-to-mid 90s buddy cop movies definitely had an 80s flavour. So I realise it can be simplistic to reduce a debate to an age, era, decade, etc. However, I look forward to both the pros and cons of 70s Spidey being discussed.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2024 9:30:05 GMT -5
I've got no disparaging remarks to make about 70s Spidey. It's my favourite decade. It's the one I retreated to when I wanted nothing to do with 90s Spidey (not a fan of McFarlane Spidey at all). I even read the Electric Company stuff but don't let these other people know that.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2024 9:53:55 GMT -5
I've got no disparaging remarks to make about 70s Spidey. It's my favourite decade. It's the one I retreated to when I wanted nothing to do with 90s Spidey (not a fan of McFarlane Spidey at all). I even read the Electric Company stuff but don't let these other people know that. I read the Electric Company stuff too, you're safe. Easy Reader, that's my name... Great decade for me as well, I love all the classic 60's material too, but the 70's had plenty of good art, action, character development, etc. I liked the expansion of titles as well, I thought Marvel Team-Up was a lot of fun for more quick hit types of stories, and Peter Parker was a nice addition as well. I can pick a few points as well, some storylines I didn't care as much for, and I would have loved to have seen more frequent appearances of his classic foes, but it was still "classic Spidey" to me all the way.
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Post by Ricky Jackson on Mar 7, 2024 11:57:30 GMT -5
I've always had a soft spot for 70s Spidey. As a kid I was a huge Spidey fan and a significant part of that was collecting Marvel Tales reprints of the 70s stories and sometimes even the original issues, which weren't too pricey or hard to come by in the early 80s. In particular, I love the off and on Dr Octopus vs Hammerhead feud. I was also big on the original Jackal/clone storyline. I even love wacky stuff like the Spider Mobile and how it quickly ended up at the bottom of the Hudson(?) River. I know a lot of folks don't dig Ross Andru on Spidey but I consider his run to be one of the best after Ditko and Romita (and you also get great Romita covers in the 70s). What's not to love?
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Post by codystarbuck on Mar 7, 2024 12:03:42 GMT -5
I read some of the Spidey Super Stories. I'm on record as not being a fan of the character, largely because of the way he was written, in the 70s, as an incessant whiner. It just annoyed me. The guy has money problems but can whip together something to defeat a villain from discarded radio parts. So why can't he make some money fixing that kind of stuff? The soap opera stuff just kind of took over, at times. Action-wise, it was great and there were individual stories I liked.....just not more than an issue or two at a time. I much preferred Marvel Team-Up, since they really didn't have time for soap opera. Same for SSS, as they were written for the younger crowd, so they stuck to plot and action, and less about the rent being due or Aunt May's medication costing so much, or MJ breaking a date. Plus, Easy Reader!
I grew up in the 70s, so it was all I knew, until seeing one of the treasury editions, with old Ditko stories (The Lizard, the Molten Man, etc). Despite not caring for the soap opera elements, I think I am one of the few that actually liked the stories with the Jackal and the Grizzly, as most comments I saw later flat out hated that whole run.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Mar 7, 2024 12:09:08 GMT -5
This was the Spidey that was running when I started reading my own funnybooks. Well it and Lee/Romita reprints in Marvel Tales. So I have a massive soft-spot for 70s Spider-Man.
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Post by james on Mar 7, 2024 12:16:32 GMT -5
Being introduced to both Amazing and Spectacular in the late 70's Amazing was always my favorite of the 2. I thought the art was better and the stories also just better. While there are certain Spectacular storylines I really enjoyed ( 25-31) for example. When I started reading comics art, and action were always more important that stories that showed more of Peter's personal life. With that said maybe that's the next thing I'll read is PPSSPM. Its been years since I've read any PPSSPM
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Post by kirby101 on Mar 7, 2024 13:30:51 GMT -5
IMHO the second 200 issues of ASM don't hold a candle to the first 100 issues.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2024 14:06:47 GMT -5
In Giant-Size Spider-Man #2, Spidey and Shang-Chi leap out of window on the 86th floor of the Empire State Building and hurtle to the ground...Spidey of course fires his webbing and creates a canopy/net for them to land on and although it's described as bone-shattering force....they just bounce once, land on the pavement and start running.....
I didn't question it as a little girl, but 86 floors is somewhere around 950 feet.....crikey....
I thought I'd mention it because I fished a spare copy, around VF+ out of a bronze-age mix my dealer got....
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Post by commond on Mar 7, 2024 17:42:00 GMT -5
I thoroughly enjoy the first 300 issues of Amazing Spider-Man. I tend to read specific runs of a comic but in the case of Spider-Man, I've read a huge chunk of the original run. So, put me in the camp that enjoys Spider-Man from the 70s. I actually think it's some of the more underrated stuff from the Bronze Age. It has its ups and downs, but it's consistently enjoyable. I'm also a fan of Andru's Spider-Man. Later on, Roger Stern's Spider-Man run was fantastic, and I enjoyed DeFalco and Frenz on Spider-Man as well. Loved the Hobgoblin mystery.
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,200
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Post by Confessor on Mar 7, 2024 22:54:16 GMT -5
Spider-Man is my favourite superhero and I really, really love the 70s comics. I think the 60s runs of Lee/Ditko and Lee/Romita have never been bettered, but there was still an awful lot to enjoy in the 70s.
For example, at the start of the decade, Stan Lee was still writing Amazing Spider-Man, with help from Romita and John Buscema. Soon afterwards, Gil Kane comes on board on art chores and you get such great storylines as the death of Captain Stacy, the anti-drug issues, and the six-arm saga with the introduction of Morbius.
Then you get Gerry Conway's run as writer, which includes the landmark Death of Gwen Stacy, the introduction of the Punisher, Harry Osborn becoming the Green Goblin, the Doc Ock & Aunt May romance, and the original Clone Saga. Oh, and the very underrated, but rather excellent Ross Andru is on art for the latter part of Conway's run and most of the following Len Wein run. I really rate Andru's artwork very highly.
Wein's run is solid, rather than mind-blowing, but still, he gave us some really entertaining stories, such as Dr. Barton Hamilton becoming the new Green Goblin and the simultaneously amazing/ridiculous Spider-mobile.
Marv Wolfman's run at the end of the 70s is a bit more forgettable IMHO, but still, the story of the return of the burglar from Amazing Fantasy #15 that occurred around the 200th issue anniversary is really good.
That's without mentioning Marvel Team-Up, which started in 1972, and Peter Parker: The Spectacular Spider-Man, which debuted in 1976. The former was always a really solid read, even if it was a little formulaic. Still, it gave us fans the opportunity to see Spidey interacting and joining forces with an array of other Marvel characters.
As for Spectacular Spider-Man, that series didn't really reach its full potential until the early 80s, when it was really giving ASM a run for its money as the best Spidey comic. Nevertheless, in the 70s, the first 35 or so issues of PP:TSSM are pretty good, with the four-part Bill Mantlo-penned "Ashes to Ashes" storyline featuring Carrion being a real favourite of mine.
So yeah, lots of great Spider-Man comics in the 70s, as far as I'm concerned.
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Post by berkley on Mar 8, 2024 2:16:54 GMT -5
Growing up, I always liked Spider-Man comics without them ever becoming one of my top favourites. I think they were pretty consistent over my years of reading them - 60s-70s - possibly because the character was so popular that writers didn't dare to mess around too much with what had proven to work so well before them: first and foremost commercially, but also in terms of character and concept - because for a long time it was assumed that those artistic aspects were crucial to the commercial success. Later on they decided it was just the name and perhaps general appearance - and perhaps they've been proven right: I don't follow the latest business developments so I have no idea myself.
But anyway, yeah, I don't think there was a huge drop-off from the 60s to the 70s. Still, the 60s, and especially the Ditko run, will always have that shock effect of something new and different, and everything afterwards was really built on that with varying degrees of success (however the individual reader wants to define success). And as I think we were talking about a few days ago in another thread, it looks to me like the 70s Spider-Man was carrying on more from the Lee-Romita era than from the Ditko-Lee.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2024 7:40:19 GMT -5
70's Spider-Man definitely had no shortage of great art as has been mentioned, and a comment I remember John Byrne once saying was that after Ditko, his favorite overall art on Spidey was Kane pencils with Romita inks. I tend to agree, it was a lovely combination much as Romita's pencils are "hall of fame" so to speak.
I'm definitely a big Ross Andru fan as well, and as someone who started reading the titles in the late 70's initially, I think Keith Pollard deserves a shoutout. He never gets the appreciation he deserves, and to me he was just as solid as much as what preceeded him.
Another outlet for Spidey I liked in the 70's was the newspaper strip that started in 1977. It was a great decade to be a Spider-Man fan overall.
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Post by driver1980 on Mar 8, 2024 7:58:13 GMT -5
I’ve never read the newspaper strip, but I’d like to.
I really wish DC and Marvel had done a Batman/Spidey crossover, circa early 80s, with Ross Andru on art duties. I have to confess, the 2 Spidey/Bats crossovers in the 90s left me feeling unfulfilled, and the art didn’t appeal to me.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2024 8:07:36 GMT -5
I’ve never read the newspaper strip, but I’d like to. I really wish DC and Marvel had done a Batman/Spidey crossover, circa early 80s, with Ross Andru on art duties. I have to confess, the 2 Spidey/Bats crossovers in the 90s left me feeling unfulfilled, and the art didn’t appeal to me. The newspaper strip as you might imagine was much lighter fare than the mainstream books of the time, but it did reunite Lee and Romita at the start and had a lovely throwback quality for me. I also love the idea of that crossover, I think just the matching of wits between Peter and Bruce would have been interesting territory even beyond the action, and a big yes to Andru on art.
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