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Post by driver1980 on Mar 8, 2024 8:19:10 GMT -5
Interesting. You know, I was thinking about Spidey and Bats fighting before heading off to battle 2 villains, but I hadn’t considered the matching of wits between Peter and Bruce. That could have been interesting.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2024 14:11:59 GMT -5
I don't think any 2-parter from 1980 to current day packed a wallop like 'The Night Gwen Stacy died' in Amazing Spidey 121-22
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Post by kirby101 on Mar 8, 2024 14:42:04 GMT -5
As iconic as it was, in hindsight, I think that story was a terrible mistake.
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Post by driver1980 on Mar 8, 2024 14:49:17 GMT -5
As iconic as it was, in hindsight, I think that story was a terrible mistake. I agree 100%. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2024 15:03:10 GMT -5
As iconic as it was, in hindsight, I think that story was a terrible mistake. I agree 100%. Definitely same for me, though I think you said it well with "Storylines that occurred in that era have had ramifications for decades, although people’s mileage may vary. Some may like the clone thing, Gwen Stacy’s death, etc. Some might not. But it’s been influential." I'm not the biggest fan of Conway as a writer in general, whereas I take what Stern was doing in the 80's with say "The Kid Who Collects Spider-Man", and while that story may not have had any lasting ramifications, it's one of the most impactful Spider-Man stories I've probably ever read. But again, still love a lot of the 70's overall. |
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Post by driver1980 on Mar 8, 2024 15:10:26 GMT -5
One problem that Marvel has, in my humble opinion, is that they dilute everything. I’ve just seen details of a Symbiote Spider-Man 2099 comic. People’s mileage does indeed vary, but for me, I have no interest.
We had Hulk. Then She-Hulk. I like both. Then we got Red Hulk. And Red She-Hulk. It’s never ending. Sometimes it works for me, sometimes it doesn’t. I expect we’ll get Symbiote Shocker #1 on sale soon, or Clone Saga IV: The Final Chapter. Nothing stays unique.
So, I guess I’m saying that there are stories I wish had just stayed as unique, fun tales in the past. I never want it to be a binary choice. I’m glad we got the creation of the likes of She-Hulk. But I didn’t feel we needed an Onslaught sequel, or any revisiting of the clone story.
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Post by tarkintino on Mar 8, 2024 20:16:19 GMT -5
I don't think any 2-parter from 1980 to current day packed a wallop like 'The Night Gwen Stacy died' in Amazing Spidey 121-22
Agreed, and once again The Amazing Spider-Man title took the fantasy of the superhero and brilliantly merged it with the most mature ideas / stories. Thanks to the unparalleled potency of the creative team working on this early 70s period of the title, TASM elevated Spider-Man as an earthy, realistic character far above that vast majority of the superhero genre's characters, in what was one of medium's most golden periods. |
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Post by spoon on Mar 8, 2024 21:50:55 GMT -5
As iconic as it was, in hindsight, I think that story was a terrible mistake. I agree 100%. To me, it's a very powerful story. I also like the Luke Cage story immediately after, when Peter is grieving. What's the mistake? Is it that Gwen is a better fit for Peter as a realistic girlfriend (like they're both smart) and you think it would make for better stories with her still in the cast? That's something I see some merit. On the hand, I wouldn't agree that it's too heavy for the series. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2024 22:27:48 GMT -5
Agreed, and once again The Amazing Spider-Man title took the fantasy of the superhero and brilliantly merged it with the most mature ideas / stories. Thanks to the unparalleled potency of the creative team working on this early 70s period of the title, TASM elevated Spider-Man as an earthy, realistic character far above that vast majority of the superhero genre's characters, in what was one of medium's most golden periods. From my vantage point it was more a lack of maturity, Conway was very young and this was really just a routine soap opera "kill off a leading character". I think "maturity" in writing could have been seeing Peter and Gwen's relationship continue to grow in meaningful ways. But we all see things differently, no absolute statements can ever be made, it's all subjective. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2024 22:41:51 GMT -5
I guess I'm one who prefers it went the way it did. But that's mostly because when I was small, I read back-issue Spidey comics completely out of sequence and certainly not as they appeared on the stands....so I was far more accustomed to MJ as Peter's gf than Gwen for quite some time.
This video on the subject of Gwen/MJ is interesting....
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,200 
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Post by Confessor on Mar 9, 2024 0:08:25 GMT -5
I don't really have an opinion on whether killing Gwen was a mistake from a creative perspective -- it was already half a dozen years in the past when I first started reading Spider-Man comics, so it's just the way things are, as far as I've always been concerned. It's as much a part of basic Spider-Man lore as Uncle Ben dying to me.
What I will say though is that I love the tragedy of it all and the resultant guilt and pathos that it has provided in Peter's life. In that regard, it has made for some great comics over the years. In particular, the grieving that Peter went through in the immediate aftermath of Gwen's death and then the total headf**k of the Gwen Stacy clone turning up a short while later made for some amazingly good, angsty soap opera moments.
I also like how it canonised Gwen by framing her as this beautifully doomed innocent in her pre-death appearances and as a haunting archetype of tragically lost young love in the post-death era.
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Post by commond on Mar 9, 2024 5:16:01 GMT -5
Gwen's death was beautifully written. That's why it's been a constant source of inspiration for creators that followed. It's about as far removed from a soap opera death that I can imagine. If you ask me, it was that type of storytelling that set Marvel apart from DC at the time. I can't imagine a DC comic from 1973 where Superman fails to save Lois Lane from her death.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2024 6:43:35 GMT -5
Gwen's death was beautifully written. That's why it's been a constant source of inspiration for creators that followed. It's about as far removed from a soap opera death that I can imagine. If you ask me, it was that type of storytelling that set Marvel apart from DC at the time. I can't imagine a DC comic from 1973 where Superman fails to save Lois Lane from her death. Take what I say with a grain of salt, I'm a guy who thought Peter already had the perfect gal with Betty and I would have been perfectly happy had those two lived happily ever after. But I appreciate Stan Lee's position on this one: "I hate it when people change the origins and the various little institutions and schticks that I've given these characters and stories…I hated it when Conway killed Gwen Stacy in Spider-Man. I hated it.” |
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Post by driver1980 on Mar 9, 2024 7:08:46 GMT -5
I wanted Peter and Betty to happy forever, too.
I’m not that against the death of Gwen Stacy, but I could have lived without “Sins Past” being published…
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Mar 9, 2024 8:41:07 GMT -5
I’m not that against the death of Gwen Stacy, but I could have lived without “Sins Past” being published… There is no great super-hero story that a later writer can't #@$ up. |
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