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Post by Ish Kabbible on Jun 15, 2014 16:19:39 GMT -5
I'll repeat that this is the most unattractive property for any big name writer or artist unless they were a legion fanatic as a kid.Its too many characters,way too many.its a ton of work that will sell in relatively small numbers.A half century run is very good and a cause to celebrate but I think its dead
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Post by hondobrode on Jun 15, 2014 16:35:16 GMT -5
Yes, it was bright shiny future then, half a century ago.
The Legion is still about hope, maybe more so with a fearful future, more similar to Magnus Robot Fighter, or a dark future of Big Brother.
Why couldn't this work ? Yes, there are a ton of characters, but that's part of the appeal. Hell, write it with someone who wants to write it, stepping up from the indies, and have your sci-fi pro writer co-plotter.
Star Trek and Star Wars have worked for 30 and 40 some years. The Legion has been around longer than that. It just needs to get with 2014, and away from Paul Levitz.
Maybe 1,000 is too much, but 100 years would put it close enough, but not so far away.
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Post by fanboystranger on Jun 15, 2014 16:52:13 GMT -5
I'll repeat that this is the most unattractive property for any big name writer or artist unless they were a legion fanatic as a kid.Its too many characters,way too many.its a ton of work that will sell in relatively small numbers.A half century run is very good and a cause to celebrate but I think its dead I can see the Legion being daunting for many writers and artists because of the size of its cast, but it also seems like a huge opportunity to play in a massive sandbox where (theoretically) anything can happen. Would it be a challenge? Yeah, but I think it would be a worthwhile challenge with the potential to try some different things. Many artists would rather work on a book set in the far future because it simply means that they don't have to do research to make things look 'realistic'. I'd say that the work for a writer is actually less than getting up to speed with the X-franchise and its tens of thousands of issues and continuity. (And the X-books aren't hitting royalty levels these days, either.)
Of course, this is supposing that DC would provide the new creative team on Legion with the latitude to tell their own stories without constant interference, which has been a problem for most in-universe books over the past half decade.
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Post by fanboystranger on Jun 15, 2014 16:55:56 GMT -5
Yes, it was bright shiny future then, half a century ago. The Legion is still about hope, maybe more so with a fearful future, more similar to Magnus Robot Fighter, or a dark future of Big Brother. I'd argue that even the 5 Year Gap Legion was, at core, about hope. Hope that these young adults could find it within themselves to help put the universe back to where it was before they disbanded. As grim as the universe seemed, the reunion of the Legionnaires signalled that things could get better, and as the series unfolded, they did, even with the destruction of Earth because humanity was once again free. |
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Post by Nowhere Man on Jun 15, 2014 22:43:18 GMT -5
I think the biggest issue with the viability of the Legion in today's market is that the entire zeitgeist of the future in our society has changed. In the 50's the myth of progress-that as society moves forward in time it automatically gets better, solves its problems, etc. and it is only a matter of time until all problems are solved because that is the nature of things-was in full effect. Most pop culture representations of the future were bright and shiny. Everything from those Disney world of the future type things to the Jetsons to even Roddenberry's vision of the future in Star Trek. The worm turned. Views of the future became pessimistic. Toffler's Future Shock may be the landmark to point to for identifying the turn, but it was slowly happening before that. Technology began to be perceived as a the cause of as many problems as it was a solution for. Images of the future in pop culture changed-fro Terminator to Twelve Monkeys, and such. The happy shiny future doesn't resonate with today's buying audience. Even Star Trek has suffered this. Abrams reboot has shed the hopeful optimism that permeated Rodenberry's original work. People are apprehensive about the future, not hopeful as a whole. The core element of the Legion is not one that will resonate with a modern consumer well enough to build a new audience for it. To change it as needed to make it such would alienate the long term fan base of the characters. Both those types f consumers need to be on board to make a book economically viable in today's shrunken market. Until a creator comes along who can marry the optimism at the core of the Legion to a future-based story that resonated with today's audience, and has the stature to keep DC editorial from imposing their "the writer is there to connect-the-dots we set up" strategy that permeates the new52, the Legion will remain a property that is unviable in the current market. Things can change (change may be the only constant), but right now it needs to lay fallow until it can be brought back in better circumstances. Unfortunately, writers/creators of that stature and vision are going to indy publishers not big 2 these days with their ideas, and the best Legion story I have read in a long time was Hypernaturals by Dan Abnett & Andy Lanning from BOOM! Studios in 2012, so I think it is going to be a long while before we get a viable Legion title. We may get a Legion relaunch sooner, but not so sure it will be viable, and it will be the DC pattern of 7-12 issues then cancellation again that plagues all non big 7 related concepts in the new52. -M I agree with the general feeeling, but I'm not sold on the idea that modern society is unwaveringly cynical about the future. "Cyperpunk", Bladerunner, Terminator, etc, were all big hits before Star Trek: The Next Generation hit the scene; this was probably Trek at its most progressive, optimistic and inclusive. I can only speak for myself, but I find value in utopian and dystopian views if handled with intelligence and genuine sentiment. Both usually fail miserably when they're either shiny and idiotic with no substance, or wallowing in generic cynicism without substance. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2014 22:53:26 GMT -5
Can't wait for Whore-Lass, Whore-Girl and Whore-Damsel to join. Knowing Frank, those will be the new version of Triplicate Girl in the Legion.... -M I was half joking, but seriously, give the title to someone who can tear the series down and rebuild it. Doesn't have to go the dark and gritty direction either. Jeff Smith, let him run wild for 12 issues. But be sure to give it to someone who will do something nobody could see coming. That will do it I think. That and a movie. |
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Post by Nowhere Man on Jun 15, 2014 23:07:36 GMT -5
Grim and gritty amuses me when I ponder the implications in relation to the creators that use, and overuse, the method. Most of the guys and gals that write dark material wouldn't last five minutes in the worlds they create, however someone like Carl Bark's or Ray Bradbury, generally positivist creators, had the life experience and grit to survive and thrive in such conditions if needed. (I pick those two simply because I'm reading them both at the moment.)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2014 13:43:09 GMT -5
I think the Legion has a couple of huge problems: (1) in common with lots of DC series, its continuity is just a nightmare with umpteen different versions from pre and post various reboots, with the extra added fun that even if anyone gets it straightened out (either in story, by ignoring it all or by some massive retcon) they're hostage to fortune towards whatever happens in current-time and the risk of completely invalidating their history. Again. (2) The whole lad/lass/boy/girl suffix thing is simultaneously irrideemable uncool and intrinsic to the identify of the book that renaming the characters as "normal" names just doesn't work.
The biggest problem is that DC doesn't seem interested (or able) to sell anything that isn't tied strongly into either the Batman or Superman titles.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2014 13:46:36 GMT -5
Also, the names in 2014 are effeing stupid as hell. Who the heck says Lad and Lass these days if you're not from the Emerald Isle? Easily addressed if one sets the series in a 30th century wherein the Irish have taken over the universe. |
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Post by paulie on Jun 16, 2014 14:13:17 GMT -5
Also, the names in 2014 are effeing stupid as hell. Who the heck says Lad and Lass these days if you're not from the Emerald Isle? Easily addressed if one sets the series in a 30th century wherein the Irish have taken over the universe. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! |
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Post by fanboystranger on Jun 16, 2014 14:41:27 GMT -5
Also, the names in 2014 are effeing stupid as hell. Who the heck says Lad and Lass these days if you're not from the Emerald Isle? Easily addressed if one sets the series in a 30th century wherein the Irish have taken over the universe. Faith an' begorrah! It's time for the return of Devlin O'Ryan!
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Post by Action Ace on Jun 16, 2014 15:13:18 GMT -5
Easily addressed if one sets the series in a 30th century wherein the Irish have taken over the universe. Faith an' begorrah! It's time for the return of Devlin O'Ryan!
Or, as we referred to him back in the day, Lad Lad. |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jun 16, 2014 15:22:34 GMT -5
Yes, it was bright shiny future then, half a century ago. The Legion is still about hope, maybe more so with a fearful future, more similar to Magnus Robot Fighter, or a dark future of Big Brother. I'd argue that even the 5 Year Gap Legion was, at core, about hope. Hope that these young adults could find it within themselves to help put the universe back to where it was before they disbanded. As grim as the universe seemed, the reunion of the Legionnaires signalled that things could get better, and as the series unfolded, they did, even with the destruction of Earth because humanity was once again free. It was about hope, and more than about the hope of better days after tribulations: it was about how even old age can't keep you down, about how friendship endures, and about how you can still make old dreams live again. I even loved the concept of thew SW6 Legionnaires (when they were clearly clones and not time-displaced plot contraptions) because it gave us the opportunity to see (by proxy) how we'd react to seeing our old selves, our old friends and our old loves again. Would we be envious?Act as elder brothers and sisters? Try to steer our young selves away from ourold mistakes? (All this potential was unfortunately shelved when the Legionnaires essentially usurped the Legion's place. I think Marvel is doing the same story much better in All-new X-Men today). Where the 5YL story lost its way, I believe, is when the sense of hope was lost, roughly around the time the Earth blew up. Up til then it had been my favourite comic of the month on several occasions, especially when it explained very elegantly (in one of the annuals) how it was possible for so many human-looking superpowered aliens to exist in our galaxy! The title also anticipated the iPad. Good thing it showed up a 1000 years early!!! |
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Post by paulie on Jun 16, 2014 15:38:38 GMT -5
I'd argue that even the 5 Year Gap Legion was, at core, about hope. Hope that these young adults could find it within themselves to help put the universe back to where it was before they disbanded. As grim as the universe seemed, the reunion of the Legionnaires signalled that things could get better, and as the series unfolded, they did, even with the destruction of Earth because humanity was once again free. It was about hope, and more than about the hope of better days after tribulations: it was about how even old age can't keep you down, about how friendship endures, and about how you can still make old dreams live again. I even loved the concept of thew SW6 Legionnaires (when they were clearly clones and not time-displaced plot contraptions) because it gave us the opportunity to see (by proxy) how we'd react to seeing our old selves, our old friends and our old loves again. Would we be envious?Act as elder brothers and sisters? Try to steer our young selves away from ourold mistakes? (All this potential was unfortunately shelved when the Legionnaires essentially usurped the Legion's place. I think Marvel is doing the same story much better in All-new X-Men today). Where the 5YL story lost its way, I believe, is when the sense of hope was lost, roughly around the time the Earth blew up. Up til then it had been my favourite comic of the month on several occasions, especially when it explained very elegantly (in one of the annuals) how it was possible for so many human-looking superpowered aliens to exist in our galaxy! The title also anticipated the iPad. Good thing it showed up a 1000 years early!!! 5YL was my favorite title as well. What was that, 1990 or 1991? But yeah... Giffen went all Claremont and just kept piling on. When the Earth blew up so did the series.
The funny thing is that up until that point Legion continuity is pretty cohesive with the Superboy 'issue' being at least given a poignant resolution.
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Post by paulie on Jun 16, 2014 15:39:29 GMT -5
Should I give Shooter's return another try? I tried to read it about 3 years ago and thought it stunk.
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