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Post by Nowhere Man on Jun 8, 2015 5:34:14 GMT -5
Costume updates and redesigns are always fun to talk about and always generated a lot of passion among fans. It certainly seems that maintaining the iconic appearances isn't as important as it used to be in comics. For the first 25 years of Marvel most of the characters maintained their "classic" looks once they were cemented, but around 1986 we started to get alternate costumes and other alterations. Batman and Superman basically maintained their looks for their first 70 years, with only minor changes here and there. Now I must admit that I usually dislike change for change's sake, but I have to admit that some of the more recent redesign, at least in my opinion, serve the characters better than the originals. One character who's had his appearance changed over recent years, that I not only like but like BETTER than the Kirby original, is Thor.  Now, I love Kirby's original, and have no real beef with it while reading the stories, but I always felt it was a tad too Superman in color scheme and design. This armored outfit seems like it makes more sense for a Norse god. Also, if you look at Odin and most of the Asgardian warriors that Kirby depicted, this look is more in line with those designs than the superhero look of the original outfit. Now it seems that this outfit has already been replaced, a few times, since it first appeared, which is ridiculous. I've lost track of Cap's basic look since they started giving him armor and chinstraps. (At the other end of the spectrum, I've hated all the recent Cap designs.). I suppose in a genre where change is illusory, constant costume tweaks is a tool to fight off stagnation. Eh. It's superficial and needs to slow down a bit for my tastes. So, what are some of your favorite/least favorite redesigns? Also, do you think Marvel and DC should stay on model with their characters to better reflect the merchandising side of things, or should they continue to constantly change established looks? |
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Jun 8, 2015 9:44:02 GMT -5
I really enjoyed the start of that series, and might go back to it sometime. That's was after a layoff that I dropped all comic buying. I do like the design of that series a lot. It gives off a really good "warrior" feel. And so then my one complaint that I think off over all the years that I've read Thor, is he should absolutely never have had a cape. Being a mythical warrior, despite it being Marvel's take on Norse mythology, a cape is so impractical to him more so than heroes that rose out of humanity and became warriors because of their super powers or skills. |
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Post by Nowhere Man on Jun 8, 2015 10:38:24 GMT -5
Thor would look naked without a cape! Well, Marvel Thor at least. I'm still torn over the new cloak design of Captain Marvel/Shazam.
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Post by DE Sinclair on Jun 8, 2015 11:10:29 GMT -5
I didn't like this Falcon redesign:
I much preferred the more iconic 70's look:
The redesign for the movies made a lot of practical sense and worked well for the screen:
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Post by Nowhere Man on Jun 8, 2015 11:52:41 GMT -5
 I don't blame Cap one bit. If I had to wear that the only options left to me would be lie paralyzed or choose a reckless death. |
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Jun 8, 2015 13:21:03 GMT -5
Thor would look naked without a cape! Well, Marvel Thor at least. I'm still torn over the new cloak design of Captain Marvel/Shazam. I think that is what the appealing part of this design is especially if they removed the cape; he looks like a warrior not a flashy superhero with an eyesore costume. Thor, is a Norse legend, he doesn't need to be recognized by blue tights and a red cape, or put fear into humans with a demonic outfit because he's only human. Thor and Mijnoir are legends of battle. I realize Marvel's take doesn't have to be true to the real Norse legends, but since the subject is about apparel then I think that's where Thor's improves. However, no matter what he's worn over the years, that itself has never deterred me from reading the book. |
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Post by Nowhere Man on Jun 8, 2015 13:54:08 GMT -5
Thor is certainly one of those characters that would work well without a cape. Walt Simonson is doing just that with his Norse mythology version in his Ragnarok series.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2015 14:04:15 GMT -5
I was never fond of either of these two looks for Thor....  and then there was this abominable turn for the Wasp...  but no one has changed costumes more often than the Wasp so I shouldn't be surprised someone wanted to tinker with her look....  but the whole bug thing was just beyond reason. However it was just one of many costume redesigns for Marvel characters inthe 90s that just didn't work well. Zatanna is another character who has undergone a number of costume changes. The Top Hat stage magician look is probably my favorite, but it is impractical for super-heroing, but I could not stand the look she had when she joined the JLA...  This one was decent enough, and more appropriae for super-heroing than fishnets and a top hat to be sure...  but it's not a great costume by any stretch of the imagination. They've continued to tinker with her look throughout the new52, and the current look is a step up from their initial new52 redesign, but I am still not wholly happy with it. But at least we are pas the days when Shang Chi had to walk around in these pajamas all the time...  even though Moench and Gulacy wanted to design a more practical outfit for a spy skilled in the martial arts to wear on a mission but were forbidden to by management and complained about it in the letters pages of the book. -M |
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Jun 8, 2015 14:24:36 GMT -5
I like that last Zatanna costume M. When did she wear that? I like the fishnet and top hat too, but just like man heroes having civilian clothing that they sometimes have to change into incognito, Zatanna should still have her fishnets and top hat for her magic performances and a superhero costume as well.
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Post by crazyoldhermit on Jun 8, 2015 14:27:53 GMT -5
Ultimate Thor goes capeless and I think it's a pretty good look:  Thor actually takes to redesigns pretty well. Two of my favorites are Esad Ribic's Young Thor:  And Chris Samnee's Thor, which is a combination of the Kirby and Coipel designs and might be the best of all:  |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2015 15:49:55 GMT -5
I like that last Zatanna costume M. When did she wear that? I like the fishnet and top hat too, but just like man heroes having civilian clothing that they sometimes have to change into incognito, Zatanna should still have her fishnets and top hat for her magic performances and a superhero costume as well. That was the costume she wore in the mid 80s in JLA and elsewhere...including JL Detroit.   you get a sense of the evolution in this Zatanna Special from the time (the Gray Morrow art doesn't hurt either)  Tha absolute worst Z costume was the one she wore in the 90s mini...  which looked hideous despite being drawn by Estaban Maroto, whose work I generally adore. -M |
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Post by Nowhere Man on Jun 8, 2015 16:21:18 GMT -5
Zatanna's classic look is what makes her visually distinct from your run-of-the-mill sorceress'. I never liked any of those redesigns and I'm glad the classic look seems to be back in vogue for good.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2015 17:05:07 GMT -5
I really enjoyed the start of that series, and might go back to it sometime. That's was after a layoff that I dropped all comic buying. I do like the design of that series a lot. It gives off a really good "warrior" feel. And so then my one complaint that I think off over all the years that I've read Thor, is he should absolutely never have had a cape. Being a mythical warrior, despite it being Marvel's take on Norse mythology, a cape is so impractical to him more so than heroes that rose out of humanity and became warriors because of their super powers or skills. He's one of the few characters I think actually work with a cape, since it wouldn't have been uncommon for a viking to wear a cape. Probably not a bright red one, but a cape anyway. Now, a regular guy from the 1940's-1960's strapping on a cape, that makes no sense. |
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Post by Nowhere Man on Jun 8, 2015 18:18:57 GMT -5
The irony about capes is that the most iconic cape, Batman's, is the most impractical for the type of superhero that he happens to be--all that jumping around and acrobatic movement and the like. Batman would probably have a suit similar to Black Panther's if taken to more literal extreme.
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Post by hondobrode on Jun 8, 2015 20:50:35 GMT -5
Here's a character I thought I'd truly hate, and instead ended up loving  Azrael Despite his series not being particularly outstanding, the concept of the character is very strong, and the first mini was quite good. Later on, they reworked his costume and it's truly one of the worst ever IMO   |
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