|
|
Post by thwhtguardian on Jun 8, 2015 21:10:06 GMT -5
Here's a character I thought I'd truly hate, and instead ended up loving  Azrael Despite his series not being particularly outstanding, the concept of the character is very strong, and the first mini was quite good. Later on, they reworked his costume and it's truly one of the worst ever IMO   Yeah, they went from one of the coolest looks in comics to one of the worst. It baffles me that someone thought this was a good idea. |
|
|
|
Post by hondobrode on Jun 8, 2015 21:13:18 GMT -5
You and me both.
Every other costume of his was good to great but this was horrid.
|
|
|
|
Post by crazyoldhermit on Jun 8, 2015 22:18:08 GMT -5
The irony about capes is that the most iconic cape, Batman's, is the most impractical for the type of superhero that he happens to be--all that jumping around and acrobatic movement and the like. Batman would probably have a suit similar to Black Panther's if taken to more literal extreme. Justifying Batman's cape by having it be a glider was a great addition to the mythos by Nolan. I also liked how in TDK it would fold up into a little backpack, shame he didn't use it in that mode more. One of my favorite things about the Batman Beyond costume (and there are many) is the set of retractable wings. It just adds the perfect sci-fi edge to the design. Speaking of Beyond... This is in no way an official design but it's a redesign all the same and it exemplifies a trend I find repulsive:  |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2015 22:35:32 GMT -5
I still think the best costume redesign for a super-hero ever was from this...  to this...  A close second for me was from this...  to this...  I just love the Adams look for GA, and it is one of my wife's favorite superhero looks. -M |
|
|
|
Post by Pharozonk on Jun 8, 2015 23:06:21 GMT -5
The irony about capes is that the most iconic cape, Batman's, is the most impractical for the type of superhero that he happens to be--all that jumping around and acrobatic movement and the like. Batman would probably have a suit similar to Black Panther's if taken to more literal extreme. Justifying Batman's cape by having it be a glider was a great addition to the mythos by Nolan. I also liked how in TDK it would fold up into a little backpack, shame he didn't use it in that mode more. One of my favorite things about the Batman Beyond costume (and there are many) is the set of retractable wings. It just adds the perfect sci-fi edge to the design. Speaking of Beyond... This is in no way an official design but it's a redesign all the same and it exemplifies a trend I find repulsive: I hate the current trend of making costumes into "armor" or "more practical". |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2015 0:06:02 GMT -5
I hate the current trend of making costumes into "armor" or "more practical". And by current trend you mean the thing they've been doing for over 15 years now since the first X-Men film in 2000, or really since the first Batman film in '89 making it 26 years and still going...or longer than you've been alive I believe? -M |
|
|
|
Post by Spike-X on Jun 9, 2015 4:31:03 GMT -5
John Byrne's redesign of the Fantastic Four's uniforms was great.  |
|
|
|
Post by Pharozonk on Jun 9, 2015 8:02:06 GMT -5
I hate the current trend of making costumes into "armor" or "more practical". And by current trend you mean the thing they've been doing for over 15 years now since the first X-Men film in 2000, or really since the first Batman film in '89 making it 26 years and still going...or longer than you've been alive I believe? -M I haven't liked ANY of those changes since the X-Men did it back then. The 1989 Batman movie didn't have much of an immediate impact on costume design though. I'd say we have the Singer X-Men movies to thank for that. I'd say Nolan's Batman had more to do with it than Burton's. |
|
|
|
Post by Pharozonk on Jun 9, 2015 8:02:18 GMT -5
double post
|
|
|
|
Post by adamwarlock2099 on Jun 9, 2015 8:22:26 GMT -5
Here's a character I thought I'd truly hate, and instead ended up loving Azrael Despite his series not being particularly outstanding, the concept of the character is very strong, and the first mini was quite good. Later on, they reworked his costume and it's truly one of the worst ever IMO I too enjoyed Sword of Azrael, and kept up with first 20 or so issues of the ongoing, and picked it up one more time for a bit in the #40's. His original costume is a spectacle and awesome too. Fits the persona of who Azrael is. Not just Jean-Paul but the being the named is borrowed from. But that redesign is just .... where's that picture of that guy make a really ridiculous face like he's seen the most disgusting thing in the world. (That or his "and boom goes the dynamite" face.) |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2015 12:44:51 GMT -5
And by current trend you mean the thing they've been doing for over 15 years now since the first X-Men film in 2000, or really since the first Batman film in '89 making it 26 years and still going...or longer than you've been alive I believe? -M I haven't liked ANY of those changes since the X-Men did it back then. The 1989 Batman movie didn't have much of an immediate impact on costume design though. I'd say we have the Singer X-Men movies to thank for that. I'd say Nolan's Batman had more to do with it than Burton's. Batman '89's impact...look at 90s costume design-Robin goes from green shorts to armored leggings and beefed up tunic. Azrael's Bat-costume, Dick's Batman costume on his first go around as Batman, Daredevil's armored black costume, Thor gets armor, Cap gets armor look and chainmail on tunic gets reemphasized in art after he gets out of armor in Gruenwald finale...etc. etc. not to mention the entire Wildstorm/Extreme cast of characters,,,,it was all happening before Singer's X-Men, but that made more visible outside the comics themselves. 75 years of super-heroes, 26 years of armoring them up and making costumes a bit more practical-a full third of their existence, that's more than just a current trend it's part of the fabric of super-heroes now, like it or not. -M |
|
|
|
Post by crazyoldhermit on Jun 9, 2015 16:14:35 GMT -5
I haven't liked ANY of those changes since the X-Men did it back then. The 1989 Batman movie didn't have much of an immediate impact on costume design though. I'd say we have the Singer X-Men movies to thank for that. I'd say Nolan's Batman had more to do with it than Burton's. Batman '89's impact...look at 90s costume design-Robin goes from green shorts to armored leggings and beefed up tunic. Azrael's Bat-costume, Dick's Batman costume on his first go around as Batman, Daredevil's armored black costume, Thor gets armor, Cap gets armor look and chainmail on tunic gets reemphasized in art after he gets out of armor in Gruenwald finale...etc. etc. not to mention the entire Wildstorm/Extreme cast of characters,,,,it was all happening before Singer's X-Men, but that made more visible outside the comics themselves. 75 years of super-heroes, 26 years of armoring them up and making costumes a bit more practical-a full third of their existence, that's more than just a current trend it's part of the fabric of super-heroes now, like it or not. -M I would say there is a difference between those 90s examples and whats going on now. You're right that on the whole it's not a recent trend but it's been a slippery slope for a while. I think Tim Drake's design was less about adding armor and more about not having a teenager running around in hot pants. The actual armor was just a couple ribbed sections. Azrael's costume was a parody of the trend and I don't recall Dick wearing armor during the Prodigal days. And most of the Wildstorm/Extreme crowd weren't really superheroes anyway. As for the rest... In the 90s the armor trend, in various strengths, was still about aesthetic. Daredevil's "armored" costume didn't have much of any real practical armor on it, it was just hard plates that were meant to look cool. Looking cool was the whole point. Even the most common practical costuming trope, the Liefeld pouches, are there to look cool. In the last several years the trend has been geared away from being for the sake of aesthetics to being for the sake of realism. The feeling is that a costume can't be a costume anymore. It's either got to be made from street clothes (more common on female characters) or it's got to be made of segmented plates, chainmail, pouches, combat boots, etc. In other words, they need to look like movie costumes. Many characters have escaped this of course but it feels like it's spreading. And worse, it's spreading to where logic just doesn't apply. Superman has armor now. Even Green Lantern has armor now and his costume is made out of light! I don't mind if they emphasize the chainmail on Cap's costume and give him pouches. And I think the cowl/helmet combo Bryan Hitch gave him in Ultimates 2 was pretty cool. But every costume doesn't have to be painted in this wide brush. Not only is it often ugly, it's added strain on the artists. Superhero costumes were designed specifically to be easy to draw consistently and quickly. Artists are already expected to draw detailed artwork that forces fill-ins (which costs the artist part of their income), this just makes it worse. Thats why I see the Batman Beyond redesign as the lowest low of this trend. The original design is simple and sleek. It's plain exterior belies the almost supernatural level of technology. Theres just no way for that costume to function in a physical world. It's perfect, Batman is a black shadow who can grow wings and turn invisible, it's the ideal manifestation of Batman as a creature of the night. Covering it in plating and seams and random lines and textures misses everything that makes the costume look good in the first place. It just seems to me that the armored trend has reached a point where it's just being applied with a broad brush without any real regard for whether or not it's appropriate, in more ways than one. |
|
|
|
Post by Pharozonk on Jun 9, 2015 16:36:21 GMT -5
crazyoldhermit said it much better than I could. 
|
|
|
|
Post by thwhtguardian on Jun 9, 2015 16:37:35 GMT -5
Batman '89's impact...look at 90s costume design-Robin goes from green shorts to armored leggings and beefed up tunic. Azrael's Bat-costume, Dick's Batman costume on his first go around as Batman, Daredevil's armored black costume, Thor gets armor, Cap gets armor look and chainmail on tunic gets reemphasized in art after he gets out of armor in Gruenwald finale...etc. etc. not to mention the entire Wildstorm/Extreme cast of characters,,,,it was all happening before Singer's X-Men, but that made more visible outside the comics themselves. 75 years of super-heroes, 26 years of armoring them up and making costumes a bit more practical-a full third of their existence, that's more than just a current trend it's part of the fabric of super-heroes now, like it or not. -M I would say there is a difference between those 90s examples and whats going on now. You're right that on the whole it's not a recent trend but it's been a slippery slope for a while. I think Tim Drake's design was less about adding armor and more about not having a teenager running around in hot pants. The actual armor was just a couple ribbed sections. Azrael's costume was a parody of the trend and I don't recall Dick wearing armor during the Prodigal days. And most of the Wildstorm/Extreme crowd weren't really superheroes anyway. As for the rest... In the 90s the armor trend, in various strengths, was still about aesthetic. Daredevil's "armored" costume didn't have much of any real practical armor on it, it was just hard plates that were meant to look cool. Looking cool was the whole point. Even the most common practical costuming trope, the Liefeld pouches, are there to look cool. In the last several years the trend has been geared away from being for the sake of aesthetics to being for the sake of realism. The feeling is that a costume can't be a costume anymore. It's either got to be made from street clothes (more common on female characters) or it's got to be made of segmented plates, chainmail, pouches, combat boots, etc. In other words, they need to look like movie costumes. Many characters have escaped this of course but it feels like it's spreading. And worse, it's spreading to where logic just doesn't apply. Superman has armor now. Even Green Lantern has armor now and his costume is made out of light! I don't mind if they emphasize the chainmail on Cap's costume and give him pouches. And I think the cowl/helmet combo Bryan Hitch gave him in Ultimates 2 was pretty cool. But every costume doesn't have to be painted in this wide brush. Not only is it often ugly, it's added strain on the artists. Superhero costumes were designed specifically to be easy to draw consistently and quickly. Artists are already expected to draw detailed artwork that forces fill-ins (which costs the artist part of their income), this just makes it worse. Thats why I see the Batman Beyond redesign as the lowest low of this trend. The original design is simple and sleek. It's plain exterior belies the almost supernatural level of technology. Theres just no way for that costume to function in a physical world. It's perfect, Batman is a black shadow who can grow wings and turn invisible, it's the ideal manifestation of Batman as a creature of the night. Covering it in plating and seams and random lines and textures misses everything that makes the costume look good in the first place. It just seems to me that the armored trend has reached a point where it's just being applied with a broad brush without any real regard for whether or not it's appropriate, in more ways than one. Except that Batman Beyond design isn't official, it's fan art and specifically fan art based on what Terry would look like in a live action movie. |
|
|
|
Post by Nowhere Man on Jun 9, 2015 18:09:30 GMT -5
I agree with crazyoldhermit's opinions on these new designs. The thing about superhero costumes is that they're a bit of an abstraction not meant to conform to the rules of practicality. Take the fitness guy on the planet, put him in a skin tight Superman costume of the highest possible quality, and he still wouldn't look as good as Neal Adams or John Byrne drew him. Human's in the real world don't get that level of muscle definition in spandex. I don't think I need to say a word on Batman's cape.
I do think the drive to look dark, cool and like the movies has taken over to an extreme extent. Another problem is that things change too fast. Iron Man seems to get a new design every year now, when conversely it took him some 25 years to go from Mark I to Mark V. I get that they probably want Iron Man to reflect the times where technology is changing and evolving at a rapid pace, but it's all superficial in his case. The outside look of the armor really doesn't denote how advanced it is in and of itself.
I also think that the mixing of independent comics sensibilities has played a big part in the shift away from the 70 year tradition of circus strongman designs. I like some of these newer designs, but we do seem to be giving up a lot in terms of iconic designs that have that broad, sweeping appeal that can stand the test of time and shifting fads.
|
|
