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Post by Spike-X on Jul 13, 2014 5:43:12 GMT -5
Ha! Yes, fair call.
What I meant was, a comic that was heavily pushing a religious viewpoint. Rather than, as in the case of parts of Cerebus, a viewpoint about religion.
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Jul 13, 2014 6:53:01 GMT -5
On the flip side,you have some folks like Jim Starlin who for decades always made organized religion the villian of his stories.Don't get me wrong,I loved Starlin's work,but he certainly seemed to have an axe to grind
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Post by fanboystranger on Jul 13, 2014 7:02:06 GMT -5
On the flip side,you have some folks like Jim Starlin who for decades always made organized religion the villian of his stories.Don't get me wrong,I loved Starlin's work,but he certainly seemed to have an axe to grind In Starlin's case, I think it's a product of his Catholic education.
I also think it's time that he moved on. It created some seminal stories in the '70s and '80s, but since the '90s, it seems that his default villain is a religious order gone bad. It's the Starlin cliche at this point. I don't expect to see the wildly inventive work of the '70s and '80s, but I am kinda burnt out on the same plots recycled over and over again with ever diminishing returns. We get it, Jim: Death is a part of life, and organized religion can be destructive.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2014 12:07:58 GMT -5
On the flip side,you have some folks like Jim Starlin who for decades always made organized religion the villian of his stories.Don't get me wrong,I loved Starlin's work,but he certainly seemed to have an axe to grind In Starlin's case, I think it's a product of his Catholic education.
I also think it's time that he moved on. It created some seminal stories in the '70s and '80s, but since the '90s, it seems that his default villain is a religious order gone bad. It's the Starlin cliche at this point. I don't expect to see the wildly inventive work of the '70s and '80s, but I am kinda burnt out on the same plots recycled over and over again with ever diminishing returns. We get it, Jim: Death is a part of life, and organized religion can be destructive.
And maybe it's because I went through a Catholic education that his work still resonates with me  -M |
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Crimebuster
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Post by Crimebuster on Jul 13, 2014 12:58:56 GMT -5
Starlin has been telling the same story over and over and over for the last 40 years. I've never really understood the appeal. Once was enough for me.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2014 13:12:14 GMT -5
Starlin has been telling the same story over and over and over for the last 40 years. I've never really understood the appeal. Once was enough for me. Starlin Marvel has been telling the same story over and over and over for the last 40 years. I've never really understood the appeal. Once was enough for me. Starlin DC has been telling the same story over and over and over for the last 40 years. I've never really understood the appeal. Once was enough for me. Starlin Claremont has been telling the same story over and over and over for the last 40 years. I've never really understood the appeal. Once was enough for me. Starlin Archie has been telling the same story over and over and over for the last 40 years. I've never really understood the appeal. Once was enough for me. Starlin X-Files has been telling the same story over and over and over for the last 40 years. I've never really understood the appeal. Once was enough for me. Starlin Star Trek has been telling the same story over and over and over for the last 40 years. I've never really understood the appeal. Once was enough for me. Starlin (fill in the blank on any creator/property/publisher/genre work that has been active for a long period of time) has been telling the same story over and over and over for the last 40 years. I've never really understood the appeal. Once was enough for me. The same argument/critique can be made a a blanket statement of lots of comics and the super-hero genre as a whole if you want. -M |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2014 13:15:30 GMT -5
Starlin Marvel has been telling the same story over and over and over for the last 40 years. I've never really understood the appeal. Once was enough for me. Starlin DC has been telling the same story over and over and over for the last 40 years. I've never really understood the appeal. Once was enough for me. Starlin Claremont has been telling the same story over and over and over for the last 40 years. I've never really understood the appeal. Once was enough for me. Starlin Archie has been telling the same story over and over and over for the last 40 years. I've never really understood the appeal. Once was enough for me. Starlin X-Files has been telling the same story over and over and over for the last 40 years. I've never really understood the appeal. Once was enough for me. Starlin Star Trek has been telling the same story over and over and over for the last 40 years. I've never really understood the appeal. Once was enough for me. Starlin (fill in the blank on any creator/property/publisher/genre work that has been active for a long period of time) has been telling the same story over and over and over for the last 40 years. I've never really understood the appeal. Once was enough for me. The same argument/critique can be made a a blanket statement of lots of comics and the super-hero genre as a whole if you want. -M Damn, does this mean we're all here telling the same threads over and over again? Jez I summon the deja-vu. ~trotting off the the bar now, it's half-full of German tourists and damn, Rie can outdrink anyone..... |
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Post by Phil Maurice on Jul 13, 2014 13:44:26 GMT -5
Starlin X-Files has been telling the same story over and over and over for the last 40 years. I only came aboard in '93. Have those X-Files tales from '74 - '92 been collected anywhere? Skinner with hair! Disco aliens! "Swatch the skies!" |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2014 15:01:21 GMT -5
Depends on what their worldview is. No it doesn't. Any creator has a right to have their work reflect their worldview. We have a right to either purchase the work, or not. That's pretty much what I meant. If I read something horribly racist and homophobic I'm not going to say "Well, it's his right to think that!" and buy the next issue. I don't think I implied anywhere that anyone doesn't have the right to be a bigot. I just implied that I would, in fact, have it another way. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2014 16:27:16 GMT -5
Starlin X-Files has been telling the same story over and over and over for the last 40 years. I only came aboard in '93. Have those X-Files tales from '74 - '92 been collected anywhere? Skinner with hair! Disco aliens! "Swatch the skies!" It was called Kolachak the Night Stalker in the seventies... -M |
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Post by foxley on Jul 13, 2014 16:44:32 GMT -5
I only came aboard in '93. Have those X-Files tales from '74 - '92 been collected anywhere? Skinner with hair! Disco aliens! "Swatch the skies!" It was called Kolachak the Night Stalker in the seventies... -M And was much better. |
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Crimebuster
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Making comics!
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Post by Crimebuster on Jul 13, 2014 17:12:32 GMT -5
Starlin has been telling the same story over and over and over for the last 40 years. I've never really understood the appeal. Once was enough for me. The same argument/critique can be made a a blanket statement of lots of comics and the super-hero genre as a whole if you want. -M It could, but it can be made a lot easier about Starlin. It's one thing when we're talking about a genre or setting or archetype, where new creators are coming in to put their own spin or commentary on it. It's different to me when it's the same guy putting the same spin on the same story that he came up with in the first place - unless you want to argue that everything he's done is a commentary on Jack Kirby's Fourth World, of course. If people continue to enjoy that story, then I guess that's cool. But for me personally, there's only so much cosmic navel gazing about religion and death and being menaced by fat-faced aliens that I can take. Claremont got repetitive, it's true, but at least he had a few different stories he kept going back to, so he could rotate them and mix and match. And Englehart had the same kind of self-involvement, dragging Mantis around with him to nine different companies, but at least the scenarios he put her in were sometimes different ones (though I find anything to do with any version of Mantis even more insufferable than Starlin at his worst). For me, Starlin has essentially the same characters in the same scenarios, over and over, exploring the same ideas again and again. If someone wants to explain to me what I am missing here, I would certainly appreciate it, because obviously a lot of people think Starlin is great, so maybe I am just overlooking something. I did like Dreadstar when I was a kid. And I appreciate the original Thanos saga. But for the most part, I just don't get it.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2014 18:29:44 GMT -5
I think a lot of good and bad writers fall back on the ideas they personally like in a story. You know what you're getting when you watch a Guy Ritchie movie, or a Martin Scorsese movie, or a Tim Burton movie. My two favorite prose authors are almost indistinguishable from each other. They are both crime thriller writers who formerly wrote romance novels. They both tend to feature spunky rough-around-the-edges female detectives in their early 30's. They both tend to be set in the south east. They're both slightly over the top in the violence and gore department, with Robert Ludlum level fast paced action, and one really long sex scene somewhere in the middle. All their books are like that, or most of them are. And I still love every one.
"Oh look, this time she's investigating a murder at a horse show, oh look, this time she's investigating a murder at a plantation style mansion, oh look, this time she's investigating a murder at the town fair."
It never gets old to me. So in my opinion, someone can be repetitive and still be good. Not saying Starlin is good, not familiar with his work, just saying that someone can have a pretty strict formula and it can still fit the bill as entertaining.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2014 18:39:19 GMT -5
It was called Kolachak the Night Stalker in the seventies... -M And was much better. Oh no...could barely watch it on Sci-Fi channel....and nothing on it could beat the Smoking Man. |
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Jul 13, 2014 19:18:24 GMT -5
Actually no,I don't get the same movie from Martin Scorsese time after time.Unless you think Taxi Driver,Alice Dosn't Live Here Anymore,King Of Comedy,Last Temptation Of Christ,Kundun and New York New York are interchangeable.Some people are one trick ponies,even good one trick ponies.Scorsese is way beyond that
Jim Starlin is,basically,a one trick pony
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