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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2014 19:23:46 GMT -5
Actually no,I don't get the same movie from Martin Scorsese time after time.Unless you think Taxi Driver,Alice Dosn't Live Here Anymore,King Of Comedy,Last Temptation Of Christ,Kundun and New York New York are interchangeable.Some people are one trick ponies,even good one trick ponies.Scorsese is way beyond that Jim Starlin is,basically,a one trick pony I'm not talking plot, I'm talking similarities. They can be found in the pacing, the cinematography, even the musical score and cast. When George Lucas made Indiana Jones, how different was it from Star Wars? Different enough to be a new movie, sure. Similar enough that if someone wanted to pick it apart and argue about it, they could. |
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Jul 13, 2014 19:38:46 GMT -5
Actually no,I don't get the same movie from Martin Scorsese time after time.Unless you think Taxi Driver,Alice Dosn't Live Here Anymore,King Of Comedy,Last Temptation Of Christ,Kundun and New York New York are interchangeable.Some people are one trick ponies,even good one trick ponies.Scorsese is way beyond that Jim Starlin is,basically,a one trick pony I'm not talking plot, I'm talking similarities. They can be found in the pacing, the cinematography, even the musical score and cast. When George Lucas made Indiana Jones, how different was it from Star Wars? Different enough to be a new movie, sure. Similar enough that if someone wanted to pick it apart and argue about it, they could. I'm just challenging your Scorsese statement.I'm curious as to the simularities between some movies he made back-to-back.Like Taxi Driver and Alice.Or Kundun and Casino.Scorsese is one of my favorite directors and one reason is the diversity in his work |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2014 19:56:48 GMT -5
I haven't really seen his movies that came out before I was born. I've found that a lot of his movies have a theme centered around Italian American culture, and New York, and often share a comparable cast and soundtrack. Maybe Alice doesn't fit the formula as well, but looking through his IMDB, a lot of them do.
Kevin Smith and Guy Richie also made a movie or two that didn't fit the mold. Those aren't the movies they're known for though.
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Post by travishedgecoke on Jul 13, 2014 20:03:30 GMT -5
I really like Paul Jenkins including in-world religion in his Marvel stuff, I have to say. Jenkins wrote someone sitting down to tell the Hulk about his special invisible friend, Jesus, and it's not preachy or condescending, but genuinely sweet. Tempered by her husband more or less rolling his eyes the entire time, but still. Jenkins' wife is ordained, I believe, but in any case, he's not preaching, I think, but rather not erasing that element from life, or pretending that any of us have special definite knowledge to act with total conviction on these things, the way we know water is wet. In Starlin's case, I think it's a product of his Catholic education.
I also think it's time that he moved on. It created some seminal stories in the '70s and '80s, but since the '90s, it seems that his default villain is a religious order gone bad. It's the Starlin cliche at this point. I don't expect to see the wildly inventive work of the '70s and '80s, but I am kinda burnt out on the same plots recycled over and over again with ever diminishing returns. We get it, Jim: Death is a part of life, and organized religion can be destructive.
And maybe it's because I went through a Catholic education that his work still resonates with me  -M With that, I'm reminded of Phil Hine or somebody saying lapsed Catholics and classical Satanist are probably the best actual Catholics, because they tend to feel it down to the bone more than the sit-in-the-pew-and-hour Catholic. Starlin wears the ethos of Catholicism openly in his stories, just as much as he still wears a particular kind of pop psychology on his sleeve. Probably why his Thanos stuff is so cyclical, because if it were resolved, it would be over. The final battle can be prophesied, but it can't actually come and finish. The trump must wait. Which reminds me: Anyone here read Ian Edginton and Dislraeli's Leviathan? Big massive boat lost in the shoals of Hell for eighty years, while classism goes bonkers and a demon tries to get his soul back from a mad human? |
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Post by fanboystranger on Jul 13, 2014 20:05:45 GMT -5
Actually no,I don't get the same movie from Martin Scorsese time after time.Unless you think Taxi Driver,Alice Dosn't Live Here Anymore,King Of Comedy,Last Temptation Of Christ,Kundun and New York New York are interchangeable.Some people are one trick ponies,even good one trick ponies.Scorsese is way beyond that Jim Starlin is,basically,a one trick pony I don't necessarily think that Starlin is a one trick pony, but that he's fallen back on the one trick that's gained him so much regard over the years. I also think he's getting specifically hired to tell that same story over and over again. Starlin used to be quite good at street level stuff and fight choreography, but he's spent the last twenty years telling 'epic' cosmic stories that are less and less epic every time he tells them. I'm actually curious about the upcoming Thanos OGN, but it's not an optimistic curiousity.
In an interview about his new Shadow mini few weeks ago, Howard Chaykin called out all the still working creators of his generation (including himself) as basically being parodies of their old selves. He said the one exception is Walt Simonson, who is constantly evolving his art and absorbing new influences. While I don't agree with Howard-- Rich Corben seemed to be turning in the best work of his career over the past decade to cite one creator-- the first person I thought about was Starlin.
It only bothers me because I love his old stuff so much.
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Post by fanboystranger on Jul 13, 2014 20:09:32 GMT -5
Which reminds me: Anyone here read Ian Edginton and Dislraeli's Leviathan? Big massive boat lost in the shoals of Hell for eighty years, while classism goes bonkers and a demon tries to get his soul back from a mad human? Love it. It's downright excellent, as are all Edgington/D'Israeli projects. It's a shame they only did the original run and a few "Tales from Leviathan" stories.
The other cool thing is that all of Edgington's historical fantasy works like The Red Seas, Stickleback, Ampney Crucis, and Leviathan are related. Stickleback is the best of them, in my opinion, but all are worth checking out.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2014 20:19:12 GMT -5
With that, I'm reminded of Phil Hine or somebody saying lapsed Catholics and classical Satanist are probably the best actual Catholics, because they tend to feel it down to the bone more than the sit-in-the-pew-and-hour Catholic. Starlin wears the ethos of Catholicism openly in his stories, just as much as he still wears a particular kind of pop psychology on his sleeve. Probably why his Thanos stuff is so cyclical, because if it were resolved, it would be over. The final battle can be prophesied, but it can't actually come and finish. The trump must wait. Which reminds me: Anyone here read Ian Edginton and Dislraeli's Leviathan? Big massive boat lost in the shoals of Hell for eighty years, while classism goes bonkers and a demon tries to get his soul back from a mad human? The running joke is "I used to be a practicing Catholic, then I perfected it and didn't need to practice it any more..." -M |
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Post by foxley on Jul 14, 2014 2:18:49 GMT -5
Oh no...could barely watch it on Sci-Fi channel....and nothing on it could beat the Smoking Man. Horses for courses, I guess. Personally I find Kolchak to be quirky and fun. I gave up on The X-Files, finding it to be turgid and far too devoted to trying to creating its own mythology. To each their own. |
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Post by travishedgecoke on Jul 14, 2014 3:14:01 GMT -5
Which reminds me: Anyone here read Ian Edginton and Dislraeli's Leviathan? Big massive boat lost in the shoals of Hell for eighty years, while classism goes bonkers and a demon tries to get his soul back from a mad human? Love it. It's downright excellent, as are all Edgington/D'Israeli projects. It's a shame they only did the original run and a few "Tales from Leviathan" stories.
The other cool thing is that all of Edgington's historical fantasy works like The Red Seas, Stickleback, Ampney Crucis, and Leviathan are related. Stickleback is the best of them, in my opinion, but all are worth checking out.
Not to derail the thread, but Ian Edginton is weirdly buried in the market. Ampney Crucis, The Establishment, Victorian Undead and more have been some of the best comics of the past fifteen years. He's just been consistently on fire, and I can see his X-Force run bombing (all of Counter-X basically bombed, even though Grant & crew were burning it up on X-Man, too), but you'd think he'd get more notice for just bulk brilliance. |
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Post by fanboystranger on Jul 14, 2014 6:22:51 GMT -5
Love it. It's downright excellent, as are all Edgington/D'Israeli projects. It's a shame they only did the original run and a few "Tales from Leviathan" stories.
The other cool thing is that all of Edgington's historical fantasy works like The Red Seas, Stickleback, Ampney Crucis, and Leviathan are related. Stickleback is the best of them, in my opinion, but all are worth checking out.
Not to derail the thread, but Ian Edginton is weirdly buried in the market. Ampney Crucis, The Establishment, Victorian Undead and more have been some of the best comics of the past fifteen years. He's just been consistently on fire, and I can see his X-Force run bombing (all of Counter-X basically bombed, even though Grant & crew were burning it up on X-Man, too), but you'd think he'd get more notice for just bulk brilliance. I think it has more to do with the bulk of his best work being for 2000AD or somewhat obscure (yet excellent) N American books like Scarlet Traces. In the US, he had a reputation for being Warren Ellis' understudy throughout the '90s, and none of his superhero books ever caught on. This happens to a lot of great British talent-- Robbie Morrison bombed out after a few American books despite being a top British writer, John Smith is as good as Grant Morrison when he's on but never found a home in the N American market, Gordon Rennie, etc. (Hell, I think you can make the argument about John Wagner. It's hard to think of another writer who has been working in comics for the past 40 years who continues to turn in work with such an astonishingly high quality, but he's very much a cult writer in the US.)
I keep hoping that Hinterkind will catch on, and Ian will become a big name. Sadly, that doesn't seem the case.
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ironchimp
Full Member
Simian Overlord
Posts: 456 
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Post by ironchimp on Jul 14, 2014 9:47:29 GMT -5
British writers seem to get given a go when companies have no idea what to do with their characters any more and just let the Brits do whatever they want and hope for the best as a final fling of the dice.
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Post by fanboystranger on Jul 14, 2014 20:26:00 GMT -5
That was certainly true over much of the past 25 years, but I think it's changed recently. Marvel has recruited heavily from the 2000AD ranks, and creators like Al Ewing, Si Spurrier, and Rob Williams have all developed books for them over the past few years. (Hell, I think Ewing may actually be Marvel's best writer at the moment.) I certainly don't see the "here's a low selling title, run wild with it" mentality much these days. The books just get cancelled or pushed more in a formulaic direction.
Edgington mostly does his own stuff, which is another reason why he doesn't get noticed. You need Batman in your book to sell.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2014 20:32:55 GMT -5
British writers seem to get given a go when companies have no idea what to do with their characters any more and just let the Brits do whatever they want and hope for the best as a final fling of the dice. Someone hire Alan Moore to do Life With Archie #38. I'd buy it.... |
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