|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2016 3:18:07 GMT -5
It seems to me like rather than rebooting and relaunching every 24 months they should try to focus on expanding distribution beyond the direct market.
Where do mainstream people shop? Not the comic store. That's for sure. Gearing toward an all ages audience sounds like a good idea to me, but while you're at it get those comics in toy stores. get them in bookstores. Get them at school bookfairs and back on convenience and grocery store shelves. A vending machine at the mall, at the bowling alley, at Chuck E Cheez. Get mini comics in Happy Meals. Advertise digital comics during the cartoons, during the shows, before the movies.
And really, if they don't want to have to reboot again in 24 more months, less focus on the shared universe. A lot less.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2016 3:49:46 GMT -5
It seems to me like rather than rebooting and relaunching every 24 months they should try to focus on expanding distribution beyond the direct market. Where do mainstream people shop? Not the comic store. That's for sure. Gearing toward an all ages audience sounds like a good idea to me, but while you're at it get those comics in toy stores. get them in bookstores. Get them at school bookfairs and back on convenience and grocery store shelves. A vending machine at the mall, at the bowling alley, at Chuck E Cheez. Get mini comics in Happy Meals. Advertise digital comics during the cartoons, during the shows, before the movies. And really, if they don't want to have to reboot again in 24 more months, less focus on the shared universe. A lot less. All that requires a massive investment to rebuild an infrastructure capable of a) producing comics for the mass audience and b) being able to market, distribute and deliver such product and finding agents willing to sell it in a manner that is profitable for both the publisher/producer and the retailer/agent. Diamond is not capable of that, so a new distribution partner would need to be found. It's not a minor undertaking and I am sure the suits would do a massive cost/benefit analysis before even beginning to explore that possibility. FOr all I know, they already have and determined the cost is not worth the benefit. It is not as simple as put the books in the stores and they will sell. Just the marketing costs alone associated with it may be more than the increase revenue they could expect, It's definitely the needed move, but it might not be a cost-effective move. They may feel their margins are better maximizing profit in the direct market. Look the suits at Disney and Time Warner are both good at making money-they wouldn't be the mega-corporations they are if they weren't. If they were sure the capital investment required for this move would pay off in the long run, they would have already set the ball in motion, but they may not feel the potential revenue is enough to make the venture worthwhile and are willing to ride out what revenue stream they have in publishing without investing in expanding print (which in and of itself may have a limited shelf life in the mass market base don some current trends). Mini comics and toys have already appeared in fast food kid meals, books (not comics) featuring the characters are already all over the place in bookstores, Wal*Mart, supermarkets, school book fairs, etc. and as far as we know none of it has shown an appreciable uptick in demand for the characters in comic format even if it were available. I am all for expanding the market and seeking a bigger audience, but to do so requires an infrastructure that is not currently in place, and is not likely to succeed if the primary format is still the monthly 20 page $4-$5 pamphlet. To create that infrastructure will require a vast investment of capital resources into a division (print) that many experts see as dying and who are looking at finding alternatives to it rather than trying to expand a dying market. I don't expect Marvel or DC's corporate masters to throw that kind of money into doing what is needed because I don't think they see the potential return on investment as being enough to justify that expense when they can make much more exploiting the property in other ways. The added factor or returnability required in those markets also cuts the profitability way down as you are no longer guaranteed to pretty much sell through all of the initial print run as you are in the direct market where you essentially print to pre-orders. How many other major media companies do you see investing in the print medium these days and looking to expand it? There's a reason you don't see it. So I agree with you, they should be looking for ways to get to the mass audience, but realistically am not sure print expansion is a viable means of doing so any longer, at least not for the monthly format with its incomplete fragments of stories that is currently put out by Marvel and DC. -M |
|
|
|
Post by Dizzy D on Jan 27, 2016 4:23:20 GMT -5
They're so far down against Marvel, they have no choice but to do what they can in the short term. We'll see what a fresh coat of paint does. It's not a reboot as much as a re-launch. Marvel gained ground, so now DC follows. Eventually, like a lot of things, the issues will be on sale on Comixology, so I might look at something if it's interesting, but even me, a die-hard DC fan, have grown to almost not caring anymore. I've felt that way about most of Marvel for about 10 years now, with the rare exceptions including Agents of Atlas. The stuff that's way more fresh, less bloated and more satisfying, is a newer more well done superhero universe like Valiant or the crazy stuff Image has been putting out. I think the biggest problem is that the reboot will not solve the underlying problems DC has (editorial mismanagement first and foremost) and therefore won't help them. |
|
|
|
Post by Batflunkie on Jan 27, 2016 9:52:25 GMT -5
The stuff that's way more fresh, less bloated and more satisfying, is a newer more well done superhero universe like Valiant or the crazy stuff Image has been putting out. Dark Circle is looking fairly promising too, but their output schedule on anything other than Black Hood is a bit erratic |
|
|
|
Post by hondobrode on Jan 27, 2016 12:29:58 GMT -5
The stuff that's way more fresh, less bloated and more satisfying, is a newer more well done superhero universe like Valiant or the crazy stuff Image has been putting out. Dark Circle is looking fairly promising too, but their output schedule on anything other than Black Hood is a bit erratic I was going to include them but I haven't read their stuff yet. Ditto with Dark Horse's latest iteration of the Comics' Greatest World / Dark Horse Heroes line. I look at the Marvel characters, which we all love, but they're not the same anymore. It's getting to feel that way with the DC characters too, though not as badly for most. It's not that I'm against change, but what they've done has been slap dash haphazard and not in character with some of the characters. |
|
|
|
Post by Batflunkie on Jan 27, 2016 12:35:32 GMT -5
I was going to include them but I haven't read their stuff yet. Ditto with Dark Horse's latest iteration of the Comics' Greatest World / Dark Horse Heroes line. Ehh, wouldn't really call it a relaunch considering that they only revived X, Barbed Wire, and threw in Captain Midnight. I also heard that none of them did particularly well sales wise |
|
|
|
Post by hondobrode on Jan 27, 2016 13:03:34 GMT -5
Don't forget Ghost
Other characters showed up in those series too like King Tiger
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2016 16:52:18 GMT -5
It seems to me like rather than rebooting and relaunching every 24 months they should try to focus on expanding distribution beyond the direct market. Where do mainstream people shop? Not the comic store. That's for sure. Gearing toward an all ages audience sounds like a good idea to me, but while you're at it get those comics in toy stores. get them in bookstores. Get them at school bookfairs and back on convenience and grocery store shelves. A vending machine at the mall, at the bowling alley, at Chuck E Cheez. Get mini comics in Happy Meals. Advertise digital comics during the cartoons, during the shows, before the movies. And really, if they don't want to have to reboot again in 24 more months, less focus on the shared universe. A lot less. All that requires a massive investment to rebuild an infrastructure capable of a) producing comics for the mass audience and b) being able to market, distribute and deliver such product and finding agents willing to sell it in a manner that is profitable for both the publisher/producer and the retailer/agent. Diamond is not capable of that, so a new distribution partner would need to be found. It's not a minor undertaking and I am sure the suits would do a massive cost/benefit analysis before even beginning to explore that possibility. FOr all I know, they already have and determined the cost is not worth the benefit. It is not as simple as put the books in the stores and they will sell. Just the marketing costs alone associated with it may be more than the increase revenue they could expect, It's definitely the needed move, but it might not be a cost-effective move. They may feel their margins are better maximizing profit in the direct market. Look the suits at Disney and Time Warner are both good at making money-they wouldn't be the mega-corporations they are if they weren't. If they were sure the capital investment required for this move would pay off in the long run, they would have already set the ball in motion, but they may not feel the potential revenue is enough to make the venture worthwhile and are willing to ride out what revenue stream they have in publishing without investing in expanding print (which in and of itself may have a limited shelf life in the mass market base don some current trends). Mini comics and toys have already appeared in fast food kid meals, books (not comics) featuring the characters are already all over the place in bookstores, Wal*Mart, supermarkets, school book fairs, etc. and as far as we know none of it has shown an appreciable uptick in demand for the characters in comic format even if it were available. I am all for expanding the market and seeking a bigger audience, but to do so requires an infrastructure that is not currently in place, and is not likely to succeed if the primary format is still the monthly 20 page $4-$5 pamphlet. To create that infrastructure will require a vast investment of capital resources into a division (print) that many experts see as dying and who are looking at finding alternatives to it rather than trying to expand a dying market. I don't expect Marvel or DC's corporate masters to throw that kind of money into doing what is needed because I don't think they see the potential return on investment as being enough to justify that expense when they can make much more exploiting the property in other ways. The added factor or returnability required in those markets also cuts the profitability way down as you are no longer guaranteed to pretty much sell through all of the initial print run as you are in the direct market where you essentially print to pre-orders. How many other major media companies do you see investing in the print medium these days and looking to expand it? There's a reason you don't see it. So I agree with you, they should be looking for ways to get to the mass audience, but realistically am not sure print expansion is a viable means of doing so any longer, at least not for the monthly format with its incomplete fragments of stories that is currently put out by Marvel and DC. -M Ditching Diamond is kind of the point. I know it may be a large undertaking, but I think Warner Bros can handle it. Regardless of what major media companies invest in print, plenty of publishers do, and plenty of them are growing annually. Including comic publishers, and specifically outside the direct market. But nothing saying they can't implement and market digital a little better too. If the monthly floppy format is in such a mess that they have to reboot semiannually, maybe it is time to abandon it. But then again, plenty of comics outside DC aren't suffering the same problems. So maybe it's just the way DC does monthly comics. |
|
|
|
Post by Action Ace on Jan 27, 2016 17:54:01 GMT -5
The most eye-opening part of that was the last quote that DC is that shop's 6th best selling publisher - that's just... wow. If I recall correctly, that's Jesse James Comics in Glendale, AZ. |
|
|
|
Post by Action Ace on Jan 27, 2016 18:10:57 GMT -5
DC will need the same kind of turnaround in the next "rebirth" that Wizards of the Coast had when they put out the Fifth Edition of Dungeons & Dragons.
|
|
|
|
Post by Action Ace on Jan 27, 2016 18:52:01 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by Batflunkie on Jan 27, 2016 19:41:39 GMT -5
Wait, people still care about "house style"? I thought that went out with the 90's But yeah, nothing from that Bleeding Cool newspost invokes confidence |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2016 4:49:16 GMT -5
For those who don't know, Cliff Biggers, the retailer who wrote the second response, is one half the duo that started and produces Comic Shop News that free weekly newsspaper/hype sheet you get at some comic shops. Historically he has been one of the biggest rah rah cheerleader guys for the industry, particularly the big 2, so to see him actually bitching about the big 2 a bit is quite the surprise to me. He's a guy who has been around a while (he was producing fanzines in the mid-60s) and has had his finger on the pulse of comics for a long time... If he is turning on the big 2... -M |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2016 8:12:24 GMT -5
Wait, people still care about "house style"? I thought that went out with the 90's I don't think it's so much as house style in the old sense of "Romita's Raiders", as an expectation that the line is generally a "realistic" portrayal rather than a more "cartoony" look. There are some series where the art is a bit off-putting (Captain Marvel, for the last 3 or 4 series, has had a variety of artists that I didn't like, for example), but mostly it's the writing and the basic setup of the series that's the problem. The other thing, which I keep harping on about - I don't think you can over-estimate what a disaster it was to suspend/terminate all the existing series for Secret War and then restart different ones: it creates a perfect jumping-off point for people who have been invested in pet series for years or even decades (case in point, I've dropped every series with the word "Avengers" in the title, for the first time since I came back to comics about 10 or 12 years ago. Am I am/was a real hard-core Marvel fan) |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2016 9:40:13 GMT -5
The manga/cartoony criticism is suspect to me because the 90s were full of that too (Joey Mad, Humberto Ramos, Ringo on FF, the manga Ghost Rider run , etc. etc. and everyone was raving about it then. It's not now just getting to be that way, it's been part of Marvel's slate of art on books for over 20 years now, so to point to it as a reason now they don't like the books suddenly just doesn't fly with me. If it bothered them why did they stick with books in that style for 20 years or so before suddenly starting to complain? It's just people grasping at straws to try to justify their own reactions, not the actual cause of those reactions, which mostly consists of they're not making the books the way I want them and catering to my every whim so waaaa! You don't like it, that's cool, don't buy it, but don't try to justify it by saying they're doing something different now that in actuality they've been doing for decades. Time passes, things change, it's the nature of the world and of every commercial endeavor. I'd posit Marvel hasn't changed enough ot keep up with the changing market moreso than I would they have changed too much.
-M
|
|
