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Post by Batflunkie on Jan 28, 2016 10:06:28 GMT -5
The manga/cartoony criticism is suspect to me because the 90s were full of that too (Joey Mad, Humberto Ramos, Ringo on FF, the manga Ghost Rider run , etc. etc. and everyone was raving about it then. McFarlane's work seems to draw from some weird mesh of manga and cartoons, or at least that's the impression I got from his run on Spider-Man  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2016 10:18:33 GMT -5
Everyone was raving about all sorts of stuff in the 90s which just looks like crap now - tastes change, a generation of readers moves on leaving behind the ones who hated that stuff in the first place, other...?
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Post by Action Ace on Jan 28, 2016 13:41:56 GMT -5
Wait, people still care about "house style"? I thought that went out with the 90's I don't think it's so much as house style in the old sense of "Romita's Raiders", as an expectation that the line is generally a "realistic" portrayal rather than a more "cartoony" look. There are some series where the art is a bit off-putting (Captain Marvel, for the last 3 or 4 series, has had a variety of artists that I didn't like, for example), but mostly it's the writing and the basic setup of the series that's the problem. The other thing, which I keep harping on about - I don't think you can over-estimate what a disaster it was to suspend/terminate all the existing series for Secret War and then restart different ones: it creates a perfect jumping-off point for people who have been invested in pet series for years or even decades (case in point, I've dropped every series with the word "Avengers" in the title, for the first time since I came back to comics about 10 or 12 years ago. Am I am/was a real hard-core Marvel fan) "Breaking the habit" with Secret Wars at Marvel and Convergence and their September events at DC is probably the #1 factor in established readers walking away. They found they didn't miss it as much as they thought or it became an out of sight out of mind situation and they just didn't bother anymore. Now DC wants to restart again and people don't want to have anything to do with a lameduck era. (like the last few months Pre-Flashpoint) You've got the current audience mad, the previous audience mad, collectors mad, retailers mad and the new readers don't think you're worth the cost and effort, not a good place to be. |
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Post by Dizzy D on Jan 28, 2016 14:09:55 GMT -5
The manga/cartoony criticism is suspect to me because the 90s were full of that too (Joey Mad, Humberto Ramos, Ringo on FF, the manga Ghost Rider run , etc. etc. and everyone was raving about it then. It's not now just getting to be that way, it's been part of Marvel's slate of art on books for over 20 years now, so to point to it as a reason now they don't like the books suddenly just doesn't fly with me. If it bothered them why did they stick with books in that style for 20 years or so before suddenly starting to complain? It's just people grasping at straws to try to justify their own reactions, not the actual cause of those reactions, which mostly consists of they're not making the books the way I want them and catering to my every whim so waaaa! You don't like it, that's cool, don't buy it, but don't try to justify it by saying they're doing something different now that in actuality they've been doing for decades. Time passes, things change, it's the nature of the world and of every commercial endeavor. I'd posit Marvel hasn't changed enough ot keep up with the changing market moreso than I would they have changed too much. -M True, I wonder what titles they are talking about? I do have to say that I dropped New Avengers due to not liking the artwork, but I've taken a quick look at the current marvel titles: Kubert, Bagley, Ramos, Garney, Maleev, Cho, Dillon, Stelfreeze, McNiven and Bachalo: have been in comics for 10, 20 years now, so they clearly are not talking about them. Acuna, Samnee, Smallwood, Lopez: stylized, but not cartoony or manga (at least to me). Perkins, Molina, Barbieri, Ross, Marquez, Kirk, Rocafort, Sorrentino: no styles that I found uncommon in superhero comics. Sanford Greene, Felipe Andrade and Kris Anka: I like them, but I can see that they are quite a departure from the usual art style on the titles they are doing, so I give them that. Most other cases, the art fits the title: Erica Henderson: Very cartoony yes, but it completely fits the title of Squirrel Girl and I can't imagine the title with a Kubert or Lee or Romita Jr. or a more classical type of artist. Brittney Williams and Natacha Bustos: same case. And these three titles are clearly aimed at a very different audience than your standard Spider-Man, Avengers or X-Men readers. |
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Post by Nowhere Man on Jan 28, 2016 15:32:17 GMT -5
The problem with the variety of artists nowadays is that you have a lot of very talented artists who simply don't fit the books they're on. When I think about it, it goes back to C.C. Beck hating any kind of realistic approach to superheroes. I agree with him to a point. There are certain styles that I like from a pure art appreciation standpoint, that I can't help feel would be better served in a sci-fi comic or horror comic. I tend to dislike artistic approaches that tone down, or attempt to get rid of, the specific visual conceits of the superhero genre that made it unique. You get this sort of thing when you have writers and artists doing books when they're not really fans of the art history of superhero comics.
I've said this before, but I'm more irritated by artists who refuse to stay on model. I'm all for artists drawing a character in their own style, but for Pete's sake, the Thing is 6' not 10' on a whim. These are characters that you don't own and that literally have height and weight stats plastered all over the internet. Artistic expression should factor into the overall style, but not scale and proportion to the point that it grossly distorts a character to the point that they're barely recognizable. *rant mode off*
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Post by Batflunkie on Jan 28, 2016 17:12:09 GMT -5
I can tolerate a lot of "abstract" approaches to art and superheroes, but I can't stomach anything Erica Henderson does  Where Liefeld has difficultly drawing hands and legs, Erica can not draw a face to save her own life |
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Post by thwhtguardian on Jan 29, 2016 18:26:02 GMT -5
I can tolerate a lot of "abstract" approaches to art and superheroes, but I can't stomach anything Erica Henderson does Where Liefeld has difficultly drawing hands and legs, Erica can not draw a face to save her own life I've never heard of her but that actually looks pretty good to me. |
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Jan 30, 2016 18:45:10 GMT -5
Henderson can work in a less cartoony Style, as in this piece on the front page of her Tumblr  But I really like her simplified cartoony approach to the Marvel books. You can tell exactly what every character is feeling (with the capacity for subtle nuance, which is something mainstream comics have struggled with) and their relationship to every other character is immediately, all the time, on every page. Effective cartooning priortizes rendering movement and emotion above everything else, and Henderson is great at both of those. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2016 18:59:04 GMT -5
I'm counting my pennies and saving up for the inevitable RRP variants to promote this DC endeavour...
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Post by Action Ace on Jan 30, 2016 19:11:03 GMT -5
DC will also take the lead for the new 16 pages of content for $4.99 format.  |
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Post by hondobrode on Feb 1, 2016 20:58:20 GMT -5
That's another thing that really baffles me; just because Marvel raises the bar to $ 4, eventually DC follows. I don't agree with it, but I get it, but, what about everyone else ?
I simply can't believe they're priced the same or higher.
I think there's room for a lower priced line and am dumbfounded we don't see it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2016 9:53:26 GMT -5
Bleeding Cool is running Rebirth stories/rumors all day today....
first up-looks like every relaunching series will get a "Rebirth" issue between the last new52 issue and the new #1 issue-this will be in June with the bi-weekly books also getting their #1 issue in June but the monthly books not until the next month
SO Batman #52 in May, Batman Rebirth in early June and Batman #1 in late June.
Not sure what the rebirth issues are-revised origins? overviews of character history and place in DCU? stories to establish new status quo? teasers? no word on that.
Tom King (of Omega Men (ending), Grayson (leaving book) and The Vision) is in line ot be the new writer on the flagship Batman bi-weekly book, but is said to be working in lockstep with Snyder who will be on Detective-the analogy is that it will be like Jason Aaron on Star Wars and Keiron Gillen on the Vader book for Marvel).
-M
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2016 14:00:16 GMT -5
So this is rich (or Rich as in Rich Johnston of BC) apparently there are sources who leaked what was said in a closed door meeting of DC editorial-he suits at WB have told DC that the cues for Rebirth are going to come for a twist in the Batman vs. Superman movie, but they want the twist to remain secret until the movie releases and they don't trust DC editorial or creative to keep the secret, so they won't tell them what it is, but expect them to slap something together using it for the Rebirth Initiative for June after the movie releases in March...
This has to be false doesn't it? They can't be that delusional that something like that won't blow up in their faces?
Other rumor-the JSA is returning (yay) except they will be flash forwarded from the WWII era into the present at their young ages to operate in the current day but in their prime (WTF?)
Damien Wayne leading the New Teen Titans
Peter Tomasi the lead writer on Superman
several cancellation and new title rumors...mostly solo books cancelled and characters moved to team books (Canary cancelled moved to Birds of Prey, Starfire cancelled moved to Titans, etc.)
-M
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Post by tingramretro on Feb 3, 2016 3:23:07 GMT -5
Other rumor-the JSA is returning (yay) except they will be flash forwarded from the WWII era into the present at their young ages to operate in the current day but in their prime (WTF?) -M I love the JSA, I miss the JSA, I want them back. But this idea, to me, seems to totally defeat the point of the JSA. If they are no longer the veterans who started the whole thing in the 1940s, they might just as well be the JLA. |
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Post by thwhtguardian on Feb 3, 2016 10:38:22 GMT -5
I've wanted to see Damian in a Titans book since he had that Halloween crossover issue with Supergirl a few years back, so I might check that out if true.
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