shaxper
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Post by shaxper on May 11, 2016 20:09:45 GMT -5
In the X-Men comics of days gone by, Mutant Registration was very clearly portrayed as an issue stirred up by bigots that was morally wrong. It was a convenient allegory for civil rights. But, of course, that's an over-simplification. Granted, if all mutants grew wings, fur, or ice coatings and/or were committed to the mutual coexistence of humans and mutants, there would be no problem, but wouldn't there be some mutants out there with powers so potentially devastating that the need to protect the innocent would outweigh the need to provide an individual with their civil rights? What if Storm, as a child, could wipe out entire cities with tornadoes and tsunamis every time she threw a tantrum, or an adolescent Scott Summers would keep knocking off his glasses by accident when he played street hockey and end up shooting full power optic beams straight through residential homes with devastating force?
At the end of the day, if there really were super powered mutants among us, would you support mutant registration and the potential for forced mutant detention in some extreme circumstances?
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Post by wildfire2099 on May 11, 2016 20:20:39 GMT -5
It's really hard to compare something so very fictional to real life, but we do require guns to be registered, and their users licensed. Only specific countries are allowed to have nuclear weapons... I mean, 1/2 the X-Men are probably more dangerous than a nuclear bomb.
That said, weapons can be separated from the person that fires them... mutants can't, so it's a really tough issue. I'd imagine in real life there'd be some sort of mandatory power dampeners, unless, say Storm worked for the CIA or something.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on May 11, 2016 20:48:16 GMT -5
I would not. I think it would be wrong and very un-american. Sure, some mutants have potentially dangerous abilities; but don't a boxer, a martial artist or a very, very smart person as well?
I'd argue that there are aggravating circumstances when a mutant uses their power to commit a crime, the same way I would for a normal human using a gun. But registration beforehand? "First they came for mutants, and I said nothing..."
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Post by hondobrode on May 11, 2016 21:05:26 GMT -5
With the original Civil War series from Marvel, I thought about pro- or anti-registration.
Of course we all love liberty, but, like Shax has pointed out, some of these mutants would literally been walking WMD's.
How exactly to do something, I'm not sure, but, to not somehow have some sort of monitoring or mentoring or something for these people, would not be correct for all the rest of the world's citizens.
At the very least, the government would have a specific organization to track the mutants and have force ready if need be.
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Post by foxley on May 11, 2016 21:29:00 GMT -5
So you should register, monitor and track people because of something they might do? Then install an rfd chip in every single human and monitor them round the clock, because every single person has the potential to be a murderer.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on May 12, 2016 2:17:01 GMT -5
So you should register, monitor and track people because of something they might do? Then install an rfd chip in every single human and monitor them round the clock, because every single person has the potential to be a murderer. I think that's a bit of a strawman, though. The point is not that they can do harm but rather that some of them are almost inevitably going to cause harm on a large scale simply by nature of their powers and the extent of control they require. Most of these mutants wouldn't have a Charles Xavier teaching them how to control their powers and to view them as an awesome responsibility. Some will simply fry a city block as an instinctive reflex whenever they are having a bad day, regardless of good intentions. I agree registration is not a desirable option (thus the point of starting the debate) but neither is just waiting for something to happen...again and again.
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Post by Dizzy D on May 12, 2016 5:04:41 GMT -5
I'd expect if there were mutants we would have registration but not government issued, more insurance/medical registration as mutants could have specific medical requirements. (Franklin Richards should probably have to carry a card with "Warning! Mutant Reality Warper! Do not give any medication which could hallucinations.")
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on May 12, 2016 8:32:10 GMT -5
I would say yes, I would be for it, just for the simple "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one". But that's the logical approach to it. Not sure without it being a reality how emotion might trump my logic. Especially if I knew someone personally that was a mutant. Even more one of my children.
A more humane alternative, if the technology existed would be the "dampers" that were used in Genosia in the 90's X-Men cartoon (I don't know if it happened in the comics) minus the internment camp part of it. Perhaps something one could volunteer to do.
The approach to it, much like how badly this country seems to approach things like racism and sexism, can be far more productive to a solution, then the actual solution itself. It's why we seem to be at a stalemate, in this country, as a whole, because the approach doesn't seem to be working, and no side wants to change that. So we'll be stuck in this mire of ineptitude. Or at least in the appearance of our country on the world scene.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on May 12, 2016 8:45:35 GMT -5
So you should register, monitor and track people because of something they might do? Then install an rfd chip in every single human and monitor them round the clock, because every single person has the potential to be a murderer. I think that's a bit of a strawman, though. The point is not that they can do harm but rather that some of them are almost inevitably going to cause harm on a large scale simply by nature of their powers and the extent of control they require. Most of these mutants wouldn't have a Charles Xavier teaching them how to control their powers and to view them as an awesome responsibility. Some will simply fry a city block as an instinctive reflex whenever they are having a bad day, regardless of good intentions. I agree registration is not a desirable option (thus the point of starting the debate) but neither is just waiting for something to happen...again and again. Is it really a strawman? foxley makes a good point, I think : everyone has the potential of being a murderer, and people do murder each other again and again and again. I believe that it all comes down to what we believe is more important : security or individual rights. Any society will have to strike a balance between the two and decide what is tolerable and what is not; some insist on tight gun control, others don't want to hear of it; some think a universal bank of DNA markers is a good idea, others view it as stepping on their rights, etc... But one thing is sure, profiling in any forms strikes me as going against democratic principles, safety or not. Be they mutants, gays, Jews, Blacks, Catholics, communists, southpaws or harpsichordists, people shouldn't be considered dangerous for what they are or may potentially do, but for what they actually do. Their belonging to any kind of group shouldn't enter the equation, unless said group clearly states its criminal vocation. I realize that this means more innocent victims of individual like Matthew Malloy, but there must be a way to keep an eye on extremely dangerous individuals without targeting their whole community, as we do with mafia bosses without spying on every Italian-American there is.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on May 12, 2016 10:03:45 GMT -5
Yes. For a human being to become a murderer, as per your example, a number of atypical circumstances and decisions must occur leading up to that event. I'm not talking about someone like Havoc who can shoot energy out of his hands if he chooses to; I'm talking about beings who, by default, cannot control their destructive energies. No one is born a mass murderer who must learn self control or else hundreds die. The same inevitably cannot be said for certain mutant powers, which are destructive and difficult or impossible to innately control, regardless of the being's intent and disposition. Or look at the example of a toddler. A human toddler experiences tremendous moments of rage in which they are incapable of reason, but they are also incapable of causing destruction. Now give that toddler the powers of Professor X...or Jean Gray...or Magneto. Human murderers are severely atypical, and it takes a complex series of circumstances and decisions to get them to that point. Some mutants are born with the innate ability to destroy by default, and some are not born equipped with the ability to control those powers.
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Post by tingramretro on May 12, 2016 10:37:57 GMT -5
I would say yes, I would be for it, just for the simple "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one". But that's the logical approach to it. Not sure without it being a reality how emotion might trump my logic. Especially if I knew someone personally that was a mutant. Even more one of my children. A more humane alternative, if the technology existed would be the "dampers" that were used in Genosia in the 90's X-Men cartoon (I don't know if it happened in the comics) minus the internment camp part of it. Perhaps something one could volunteer to do. The approach to it, much like how badly this country seems to approach things like racism and sexism, can be far more productive to a solution, then the actual solution itself. It's why we seem to be at a stalemate, in this country, as a whole, because the approach doesn't seem to be working, and no side wants to change that. So we'll be stuck in this mire of ineptitude. Or at least in the appearance of our country on the world scene. I'm not in your country, but I can't really imagine mine-or any country in the European Union, for that matter-standing for either compulsory registration of mutants or forcing them to wear power dampeners, if they existed. It would be seen by the majority as an obvious and indefensible violation of their human rights, I suspect. And rightly so. A lot of people even today are still very aware of what happened the last time a government in Europe decided one race had less rights than another.
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on May 12, 2016 11:01:54 GMT -5
I agree with shaxper's point, and why I would feel in support of a registration policy. Granted this is fiction, but the reality of a human capable of destruction on a level no one person is possible of to this point, deserves consideration both as a person and as a potential for destruction. That being whether they choose to be malevolent or not. Hopefully if this happened there would be a balance that could be reached to where it would encourage voluntary registration, for those that do not have an intent for destruction or are aware that there power is beyond their scope to contain. If they are treated humanly, then it becomes a real show for the concern of them and might help both sides become comfortable with each's others concern for the world as a whole.
It's why I don't think blatant strict gun control is beneficial in the long run. Should any citizen be able to at least own a 9mm handgun or bolt action rifle? Sure. (Though not veer too far off topic, but I'd like mandatory training on safety and usage, just like a car to get a licence for it.) But does the average citizen need a full automatic machine gun that can spit out 100 bullets per second (that just a fictional figure)? No not in my eyes, because that's much more killing power than any one person needs. It's bad enough the history of man has brought these kinds of weapons into existence period.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on May 12, 2016 11:11:24 GMT -5
Yes. For a human being to become a murderer, as per your example, a number of atypical circumstances and decisions must occur leading up to that event. I'm not talking about someone like Havoc who can shoot energy out of his hands if he chooses to; I'm talking about beings who, by default, cannot control their destructive energies. No one is born a mass murderer who must learn self control or else hundreds die. The same inevitably cannot be said for certain mutant powers, which are destructive and difficult or impossible to innately control, regardless of the being's intent and disposition. Or look at the example of a toddler. A human toddler experiences tremendous moments of rage in which they are incapable of reason, but they are also incapable of causing destruction. Now give that toddler the powers of Professor X...or Jean Gray...or Magneto. Human murderers are severely atypical, and it takes a complex series of circumstances and decisions to get them to that point. Some mutants are born with the innate ability to destroy by default, and some are not born equipped with the ability to control those powers. You're correct, but aren't we saying the same thing? A few normal humans are born with what it takes to make them murderers, and some mutants are born with what it takes to blow up continents. It hardly seems fair to force all members of their respective communities to register as potential threats. Were I a mutant rights activist in the MU, I'd suggest that sure, it's fine for the government to keep tabs on mutants it knows are potential threats because of the highly dangerous nature of their powers, even if they have done nothing wrong yet. But at the same time I wouldn't agree that all mutants should be registered on account of some members of their community being dangerous. The vast majority of them, after all, just have powers that aren't that threatening. (Most of them look like supermodels as well, for some reason, but that's a completely unrelated point).
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on May 12, 2016 11:22:46 GMT -5
You're correct, but aren't we saying the same thing? A few normal humans are born with what it takes to make them murderers, and some mutants are born with what it takes to blow up continents. It hardly seems fair to force all members of their respective communities to register as potential threats. Were I a mutant rights activist in the MU, I'd suggest that sure, it's fine for the government to keep tabs on mutants it knows are potential threats because of the highly dangerous nature of their powers, even if they have done nothing wrong yet. But at the same time I wouldn't agree that all mutants should be registered on account of some members of their community being dangerous. The vast majority of them, after all, just have powers that aren't that threatening. (Most of them look like supermodels as well, for some reason, but that's a completely unrelated point). Yes, I can generally see your point. Problem is, in the MU, you can have the mutant gene and not have had your powers manifest yet, so I DO think it would be important to track those individuals out of concern for the potential destructiveness their powers could end up having (and, in the MU, super destructive powers occur far more regularly than mass murderers). Even in the case of someone like Bobby Drake, his initial relatively benign powers gradually evolved into something potentially a lot more destructive (though probably still not warranting detainment of any kind).
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Post by tingramretro on May 12, 2016 11:30:36 GMT -5
It's why I don't think blatant strict gun control is beneficial in the long run. Should any citizen be able to at least own a 9mm handgun or bolt action rifle? Sure. Why? Why does any private citizen in a civilized society need to own a lethal weapon?
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