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Post by wildfire2099 on Aug 3, 2016 21:27:28 GMT -5
I've never been a big Starlin or Thanos fan... all I know about this is it makes Iron Man #55 be out of my price range  |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2016 21:50:08 GMT -5
Never read this. I only have read a handful of Marvel's Capt Marvel issues.
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Post by foxley on Aug 3, 2016 22:37:14 GMT -5
Lay it on me. I always love a good rant  I too wouldn't mind hearing your opinions foxley. Especially since I'll be the ying to your yang in commenting on it that might balance each other's views on both sides. I'm sure I've made it know I am an unapologetic Starlin fan which extends to Thanos and Warlock. :-) Okay, you twisted my arm.  I'll weigh in with my ill-thought-out opinions as the mood strikes me. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Aug 3, 2016 23:04:02 GMT -5
I too wouldn't mind hearing your opinions foxley. Especially since I'll be the ying to your yang in commenting on it that might balance each other's views on both sides. I'm sure I've made it know I am an unapologetic Starlin fan which extends to Thanos and Warlock. :-) Okay, you twisted my arm. I'll weigh in with my ill-thought-out opinions as the mood strikes me. I'm sure that foxley and I mixed it up in this subject before, but suffice it to say that although Thanos was inspired by Darkseid, he has been used to greater affect in the stories that followed. Man, EVERYBODY is afraid of Thanos. Even without the Gauntlet or cosmic cube he was a person no one wanted to face. |
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Post by foxley on Aug 4, 2016 0:44:38 GMT -5
Okay, you twisted my arm. I'll weigh in with my ill-thought-out opinions as the mood strikes me. I'm sure that foxley and I mixed it up in this subject before, but suffice it to say that although Thanos was inspired by Darkseid, he has been used to greater affect in the stories that followed. Man, EVERYBODY is afraid of Thanos. Even without the Gauntlet or cosmic cube he was a person no one wanted to face. And people are lining up to take on Darksied? |
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Post by Icctrombone on Aug 4, 2016 5:28:27 GMT -5
They are both powerhouses, but Thanos combines the mercilesness of a serial killer with the intellect of a Reed Richards. Look at his origin from a few years ago, you will see a person much more complex than just a person who rules a planet. Even when he aids the heroes, no one really trusts him because he's a master manipulator.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Aug 4, 2016 6:00:19 GMT -5
Jim Starlin's Thanos Saga (1973-1976) Iron Man #55, Captain Marvel #25-33, Marvel Feature #12, Daredevil #105-107, Avengers #125, Strange Tales #178-181, Warlock #9-15, Avengers Annual #7, Marvel Two-in-One #2 I'm glad you have that run stop at MtiO annual 2, although The death of Captain Marvel could be considered an appropriate coda. Those issues form the "real" Thanos saga, although comics being what they are, there were endless reiterations thereof later. (Just as the "real" Phoenix saga, as far as I am concerned, ends with X-Men #137). I fully agree with icctrombone : for maximum enjoyment, I think you should include the start of the Magus saga (the strange tales issues that precede Warlock#9). Even if Thanos does not appear in them, his arrival later on becomes that much more dramatic. One thing that makes this saga so good is that Starlin knew how it would end a long time in advance. It really gave the whole thing the aspect of a long graphic novel. Tight plotting, dramatic resolution, and a cosmic scope... That was for the longest time my favourite comics storyline. |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Aug 4, 2016 6:37:57 GMT -5
Marvel Feature #12, Daredevil #105-107I feel like we're pushing through the dregs right here. These are pretty forgettable stories that only loosely deal with the Thanos threat on any level. I guess they're in the trade for the sake of completeness. But it's more clear here than ever how confusing this would have been to the casual reader. The Daredevil stories, in particular, reference Titan and Thanos in passing but provide no editorial explanation that you need to read other books to understand what these things are, and someone following the Thanos saga with great interest wouldn't know to seek out the Daredevil stories until Captain Marvel appears on the cover of #107. And, man, these Daredevil stories...! I've always considered myself a fan of Steve Gerber -- Simon Garth, Man-Thing, Howard the Duck, The Defenders -- but these DD stories are really off-kilter. I'm actually a bit surprised to see any aspect of the Thanos saga turned over to someone other than Starlin, and it really doesn't work here. First off, the general concept of a greedy lawyer turned would-be galactic conqueror:  ..because it's a totally natural progression to go from blackmailing public officials to merging your consciousness with an alien force in order to become king of San Francisco:  And then there were the small moments, like these:   I am truly glad to be done with these issues. Hopefully, things get better from here.
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Post by Icctrombone on Aug 4, 2016 7:04:37 GMT -5
I've always had a soft spot for Bob Brown art. Yes, those stories didn't add anything to the Thanos greatness.
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Post by brutalis on Aug 4, 2016 7:32:59 GMT -5
Captian Marvel/Thanos/Warlock is something that is so much a part of the times for when it was published. As they say, you had to be there! Starlin came up with the first purely cosmic/nihilist/existentialist comic book that went beyond just the hero versus villain that was the norm in most comic books. Like Kirby before him Starlin had grander thoughts and concepts which were very personal to him which he was expressing. What he tapped into was the 70's consciousness at the time and for many his "cosmic" was the "drug" of choice and rebellion.
Starlin also had almost total control over his story where Kirby did not. Starlin was doing fill in work as a new hire (which explains the meandering set up/story developing in various comics before he was given Captain Marvel where he was able to move forward with the concepts. Before Mar-vell Starlin was still working out the characters and concepts (see how the physical look and character of Thanos changes over time in these early comics) and until Englehart stepped in helping with scripts and focusing Starlin's imagination.
The entire concept and series from Mar-vell to Warlock into Two-in-One for the finale was something special that when you found it the art and story and concepts were uniquely and spiritually such a part of the 70's. You just knew something wondrous was happening and the art was new, fresh and you saw Starlin blossom and grow with every issue.
This will always be a part of my childhood and remembered and read time and time again...and Starlin to this day is still obsessed with the concepts and driven by them so much he has almost totally devoted himself to them and Thanos in particular to his own detriment in the comics field.
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Aug 4, 2016 8:18:17 GMT -5
My first Thanos was when Starlin took over in Silver Surfer and then Infinity Gauntlet. Then upon praising it to the owner of the comic shop I went to, he handed me the Warlock saga in Baxter reprints. And from there it was all downhill so to speak. Part of what appeals to me in Warlock, and by extension Thanos, is the religious aspects that Starlin uses as antagonists and plot movers in his stories, and especially in Warlock. The Universal Church of Truth and Matriarch might as well have been the religion I was raised in and the structure of it's hierarchy (save that it was entirely patriarchal than matriarchal) so these concepts and their influencing on Warlock was almost like how I was feeling at the time, in my late teens. I knew something was amiss and reading these (and my folks were worried about "bad girl" comics and here this is what was worse "propaganda" than anything) was like reassurance that things are not at all what they seem. And even the best intentions, are not always right.
Thanos as a antagonist or villain, but not the pure evil that he was initially played out to be, at least in Warlock's mind, gave me something else to ponder about my worldview. Yes, Thanos does do evil things. And mostly for his own needs and wants. And he does not take into account how it affects others. So yeah, he does things that villains do. But he's not completely devoid of any good so to speak. He's not an absolute, like God and Satan in the Hebrew Bible. He's just a being with immense power that happens to be as selfish as any other average Joe can be. So while he's helped heroes in the past, it's always to fit within his plans and bring them to fruition. The world is not as black and white as I was raised to think so. Not everything is an absolute. And that's what has fascinated me about Warlock and Thanos, and in general, a lot of what Starlin writes, as these things are present in a lot of his storytelling.
Though I am afraid that brutalis might be right in that it might be to Starlin or Thanos' "own detriment". And why I am really hesitant to buy the recent events involving Thanos and Warlock GN that he has written in the last two years. I wonder if Starlin has something left to do with him. Or if Marvel just wants him to do something with them for the sake of, at least Thanos', recent popularity.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Aug 4, 2016 8:27:52 GMT -5
I wonder if Starlin has something left to do with him. Or if Marvel just wants him to do something with them for the sake of, at least Thanos', recent popularity. I can't fully answer this without having completed the Thanos saga yet but, this far in, Starlin's Metamorphosis Odyssey is far more impressive to me and seemed more deeply personal to Starlin. I suspect he's spending so much time with Thanos now, less because he's stuck on the character, and more because that's where the money and fan attention is. In comics, you get what you're willing to pay for. |
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Aug 4, 2016 8:39:19 GMT -5
I wonder if Starlin has something left to do with him. Or if Marvel just wants him to do something with them for the sake of, at least Thanos', recent popularity. I can't fully answer this without having completed the Thanos saga yet but, this far in, Starlin's Metamorphosis Odyssey is far more impressive to me and seemed more deeply personal to Starlin. I suspect he's spending so much time with Thanos now, less because he's stuck on the character, and more because that's where the money and fan attention is. In comics, you get what you're willing to pay for. Yeah Metamorphosis Odyssey (man that challenges my spelling skills every time) is amazing. And most of his work, outside or Marvel or DC, I see as some of his best despite Warlock and Thanos being more personal to me as an individual. Dreadstar's Church of Unity (?), my mind is failing me, I see a lot of with Warlock and Universal Church of Truth. I think I would have felt that Dreadstar (at least Starlin's issues) a better read if I had read them before Warlock. There were a lot of similarities, that made Dreadstar less of an impact, than Vance in MO. And as far as what he's doing with Thanos and Warlock, that's a really good point. If it's what pays the bills, then perhaps he has more in him for Thanos and Warlock than he would if it were more on the side of an editorial mandate to write the stories. Believe me, I am glad to see Starlin back in comics after being only here and there at Marvel in the last decade. |
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Post by Ozymandias on Aug 4, 2016 8:55:49 GMT -5
Starlin sure fixed Captain Marvel in #29. I wonder if he was the first superhero, to try something else other than force, as his primary course of action. Shax, the true Thanos saga and his awesomeness begins in the Warlock series. He gets a lot of dept as a character when he helps Adam Warlock against the Magus. I wouldn't want to spoil anything, so we can talk when you reach those stories. Absolutely, if he hasn't changed his mind by issue ten, we'll have to vote him out of the thread.  Marvel Feature #12, Daredevil #105-107I feel like we're pushing through the dregs right here. These are pretty forgettable stories that only loosely deal with the Thanos threat on any level. I guess they're in the trade for the sake of completeness. Exactly what I thought, even Avengers #125, feels out of place amid the Starlin stuff. The way he "tells" the story, was all I really needed for the grander scheme of things. I'm glad you have that run stop at MtiO annual 2, although The death of Captain Marvel could be considered an appropriate coda. I second that, and vote for Captain Marvel #34 to be included, too. Dreadstar's Church of Unity (?), my mind is failing me, I see a lot of with Warlock and Universal Church of Truth. I think I would have felt that Dreadstar (at least Starlin's issues) a better read if I had read them before Warlock. There were a lot of similarities, that made Dreadstar less of an impact, than Vance in MO. That would be The Church of The Instrumentality. I can certainly see where you're coming from, I don't know how I'd feel about The Metamorphosis Odyssey, had I not read that first. |
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Post by brutalis on Aug 4, 2016 9:04:41 GMT -5
I wonder if Starlin has something left to do with him. Or if Marvel just wants him to do something with them for the sake of, at least Thanos', recent popularity. I can't fully answer this without having completed the Thanos saga yet but, this far in, Starlin's Metamorphosis Odyssey is far more impressive to me and seemed more deeply personal to Starlin. I suspect he's spending so much time with Thanos now, less because he's stuck on the character, and more because that's where the money and fan attention is. In comics, you get what you're willing to pay for. This is where my sorrow comes from in that everybody wants more of " The Thanos" all of the time. The truly great villains have such layers and depths to them but the buying public want infinite repeats of the same "flavor" from the character. Starlin has to keep on finding different things within Thanos for each new story that interests him and drives him to create something new and if all the buyers want to see is more Thanos then it becomes tiresome and repetitive/ This is why i support any/all Starlin comics. Same as i did with Kirby and Ditko. The personal vision and creativity of wishing to present their thoughts and ideas and beliefs to us the larger audience. I have enjoyed everything Starlin does outside of the big 2. Metamorphosis Odyssey, Dreadstar, Gilgamesh, Breed and even all of the DC mini-series and Infinity Gauntlet mini-series explore the same "world concepts" which engulf Starlin's writing. Every story which Starlin creates in some form or another are extensions of one another and could with some thinking have a unified connection to one another. Which is part of why i find such pleasure in Starlin's worlds. They all make you think beyond our own personal boundaries if only for considering the possibilities he presents to us during the time we spend reading his works. |
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I'll weigh in with my ill-thought-out opinions as the mood strikes me.
