shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Aug 4, 2016 9:14:02 GMT -5
I second that, and vote for Captain Marvel #34 to be included, too. Not included in the TPB, but I do own it. I know it's required reading for Death of Captain Marvel, but does it have any bearing on The Thanos Saga? |
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Post by Ozymandias on Aug 4, 2016 9:26:41 GMT -5
No, but neither do some issues included, as you already mentioned. If I have to buy for completeness sake, I'd rather it be for completing something worthwhile (author before storyline).
Edit: in a not-so-broad sense, TDoCM do has some pretty important insight into Thanos' character, much more than the non-Starlin issues in the TPB.
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Aug 4, 2016 9:35:09 GMT -5
I can't fully answer this without having completed the Thanos saga yet but, this far in, Starlin's Metamorphosis Odyssey is far more impressive to me and seemed more deeply personal to Starlin. I suspect he's spending so much time with Thanos now, less because he's stuck on the character, and more because that's where the money and fan attention is. In comics, you get what you're willing to pay for. This is where my sorrow comes from in that everybody wants more of " The Thanos" all of the time. The truly great villains have such layers and depths to them but the buying public want infinite repeats of the same "flavor" from the character. Starlin has to keep on finding different things within Thanos for each new story that interests him and drives him to create something new and if all the buyers want to see is more Thanos then it becomes tiresome and repetitive/ This is why i support any/all Starlin comics. Same as i did with Kirby and Ditko. The personal vision and creativity of wishing to present their thoughts and ideas and beliefs to us the larger audience. I have enjoyed everything Starlin does outside of the big 2. Metamorphosis Odyssey, Dreadstar, Gilgamesh, Breed and even all of the DC mini-series and Infinity Gauntlet mini-series explore the same "world concepts" which engulf Starlin's writing. Every story which Starlin creates in some form or another are extensions of one another and could with some thinking have a unified connection to one another. Which is part of why i find such pleasure in Starlin's worlds. They all make you think beyond our own personal boundaries if only for considering the possibilities he presents to us during the time we spend reading his works. Couldn't agree more with your sentiment on Starlin's worlds and stories. Even something as bizarre as Wyrd, he always pulls me in. Are some better than others? Sure. But they are all good solid reading. It's characters outside of Thanos and Warlock and/or other Marvel and his DC work, that seems to be less engaging than his own creations. Although I think Batman The Cult is in his top five stories written. Of course, the Wrightson are helps. |
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Post by Ozymandias on Aug 4, 2016 10:02:05 GMT -5
Of course, the Wrightson are helps. That's a Wrightson I don't care that much for; not as bad a Hooky, but not Frankenstein-level either. |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Aug 4, 2016 23:24:00 GMT -5
Captain Marvel #31-32, Avengers #125, and Captain Marvel #33The end of Phase I of the Thanos Saga. Things definitely got a lot better. One thing I love about this story that Starlin amplifies for the much later Infinity Gauntlet: most good vs. evil stories involve a MacGuffin the villain seeks to obtain, which will grant them unimaginable power, and the heroes spend the story working to prevent that from happening, the villain never actually achieving the desired power. But Thanos gets the Cosmic Cube pretty early on. That isn't supposed to happen. So, once we return to Thanos and the cube in this portion of the saga, the stakes are unimaginably dire and seemingly hopeless as we finally see a villain with a god complex actually attain that level of power. We get to absorb his psychology as, unimpeded, he has to decide what to do with his newfound abilities. That's new territory for the old good vs. evil trope. I don't think anyone had ever done that before. And Thanos' psychology proves to be fascinating -- his true goal in doing all this:  his limitations that allow the heroes a believable hope for stopping him:  and even the later discussion of Thanos' ego and need to be worshipped (at least by Death). For a while, Starlin managed to make it utterly believable why a villain, instilled with all the power he'd ever desired, didn't just make his wishes come true. And yet, his final moment of defeat was such a let-down. I wanted a moment where he realizes Death isn't going to adore him the way he adores her, or some exploration of what made him attack Titan all those years back and turn from the path of his father. Starlin was doing such a good job of going psychological with Thanos that I was sure the final solution to defeating him would also have to be psychological. Instead, the Cosmic Cube thing felt like such a damn cop-out to quickly and arbitrarily bring this saga to an abrupt close. Really unsatisfying. Still, characterization was strong (I really loved the indomitable will of Drax):  and the action...the action!  But this was not a satisfying conclusion. Hopefully, Phase II will be more rewarding. So I'm on to the Magus Saga next, and then back to Thanos... BTW, you can really see a prototype for Aknaton (The Metamorphosis Odyssey) here: 
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shaxper
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Posts: 22,872
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Post by shaxper on Aug 4, 2016 23:49:15 GMT -5
So can someone explain to me how Thanos ended up in Logan's Run #6? Starlin isn't even credited on that story.
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Post by Ozymandias on Aug 5, 2016 3:22:38 GMT -5
I don't think anyone had ever done that before. And Thanos' psychology proves to be fascinating -- his true goal in doing all this: his final moment of defeat was such a let-down. I wanted a moment where he realizes Death isn't going to adore him the way he adores her, or some exploration of what made him attack Titan all those years back and turn from the path of his father. Starlin was doing such a good job of going psychological with Thanos that I was sure the final solution to defeating him would also have to be psychological. Instead, the Cosmic Cube thing felt like such a damn cop-out to quickly and arbitrarily bring this sage to an abrupt close. Really unsatisfying. BTW, you can really see a prototype for Aknaton (The Metamorphosis Odyssey) here: Didn't the Red Skull already reach that point, in the very first appearance of the Cosmic Cube? Thanos psychology will get further developed, as has been pointed already, look forward to his battle with the Magus. His relationship with Death was developed all the way to TDoCM, which is why I think it should be included. As for using mental tricks to subdue an omnipotent foe, we already saw a crude attempt in Tales of Suspense #81. I guess Starlin didn't want a repeat. I see more of a resemblance with Syzygy Darklock. |
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Post by foxley on Aug 5, 2016 3:30:07 GMT -5
They are both powerhouses, but Thanos combines the mercilesness of a serial killer with the intellect of a Reed Richards. Look at his origin from a few years ago, you will see a person much more complex than just a person who rules a planet. Even when he aids the heroes, no one really trusts him because he's a master manipulator. Wow! No one trusts a character whose stated goal is to kill every living thing the universe? Go figure. Heroes can be such a suspicious bunch. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Aug 5, 2016 5:07:19 GMT -5
They are both powerhouses, but Thanos combines the mercilesness of a serial killer with the intellect of a Reed Richards. Look at his origin from a few years ago, you will see a person much more complex than just a person who rules a planet. Even when he aids the heroes, no one really trusts him because he's a master manipulator. Wow! No one trusts a character whose stated goal is to kill every living thing the universe? Go figure. Heroes can be such a suspicious bunch. If you stop to consider how many villains have become trusted teammates, it's not so outlandish. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Aug 5, 2016 5:15:52 GMT -5
So can someone explain to me how Thanos ended up in Logan's Run #6? Starlin isn't even credited on that story. That story had the feel of a inventory or try out project for an artist or writer. |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Aug 5, 2016 6:06:47 GMT -5
So can someone explain to me how Thanos ended up in Logan's Run #6? Starlin isn't even credited on that story. I suspect someone thought the Thanos story was cool as Hell and wanted to join the party, even if only for a little back-up story. |
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Post by coinilius on Aug 5, 2016 6:08:44 GMT -5
Over at Super Mega Monkey someone in the comments said that the artist Mike Zeck confirmed in a Comics Interview, er, interview that he drew the story as a try out with no initial plans by Marvel for it to be published, if that helps any.
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Post by Icctrombone on Aug 5, 2016 6:29:24 GMT -5
Over at Super Mega Monkey someone in the comments said that the artist Mike Zeck confirmed in a Comics Interview, er, interview that he drew the story as a try out with no initial plans by Marvel for it to be published, if that helps any. Thanks for that information. It's only years later when he becomes a huge major player that every appearance is scrutinized. Thus, the infamous Squirrel Girl story. |
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Aug 5, 2016 7:54:50 GMT -5
So can someone explain to me how Thanos ended up in Logan's Run #6? Starlin isn't even credited on that story. I suspect someone thought the Thanos story was cool as Hell and wanted to join the party, even if only for a little back-up story. Well it was one of the better Thanos stories told. Maybe because it was just a back up story and not tied into some long running story line like Thanos' grab for the Cosmic Cube. It might have been done before this, but looking back this story of Thanos seems like an "event" before they were a go to formula to get people to buy multiple titles. I don't know enough comic history to know that, but that's what it feels like when pulling out, what 12 comics in 6 different titles? :-) It's like the 90's Clone Saga! Damn youse Marvel!!! |
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Aug 5, 2016 8:00:36 GMT -5
They are both powerhouses, but Thanos combines the mercilesness of a serial killer with the intellect of a Reed Richards. Look at his origin from a few years ago, you will see a person much more complex than just a person who rules a planet. Even when he aids the heroes, no one really trusts him because he's a master manipulator. Wow! No one trusts a character whose stated goal is to kill every living thing the universe? Go figure. Heroes can be such a suspicious bunch. To me, Thanos is clearly a despicable villain at least through Infinity Gauntlet. Him teaming up with Warlock to fight Magus, was only because Magus was stronger than both of them, and Thanos didn't want that kind of threat to his existence But he really mellows out or gets tame, after that. Multiple times, teaming up with heroes to fight a common enemy. Or even trick into doing his dirty work. That is at least up until now. I don't know what they are doing with him presently. |
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