Post by tolworthy on Nov 21, 2016 10:14:08 GMT -5
Journey into Mystery 114: what the Jotun are doing behind the scenes
(Marvel Database details: first Absorbing Man)
(The original Apples of Idunna legend)
Mythology 101
A quick reminder for Norse Noobs (i.e. me before starting Thor):
Jotun = giants.
Muspel = land of fire. Loki's father (a Jotun) was god of wildfire.
Loki is a small Jotun, and the gods killed all his Jotun people (though other Jotun survived).
Ragnarok = where the frost giants finally win and kill the gods.
Surtur = a fire Jotun, who will lead in the battle at Ragnarok and consume the Earth in flame
Gods = NOT ALWAYS GOOD. We come from a broadly Christian culture where gods are assumed to always be good. This was not the case in other mythologies. Loki did noble deeds as well as evil, and Odin did underhand stuff as well as good. The comics may seem to simply "good guys and bad guys", but they point to legends that do not.
In Kirby's version, Odin rose to fame by killing frost giants. This is important, as it reminds us that Kirby understood the myths. He was not just grabbing odd sounding names (as Larry Lieber did by inventing "Uru"). Kirby was fascinated by the legends and understood what they meant.
The question
A friend just emailed me with a question about my earlier theory that the lava man was supposed to be a fire giant. I think this brings out the important points of JiM 114, stuff other people don't seem to talk about. If you just want the details of The Absorbing Man, I recommend the Marvel Database. Anyway, his question:
My answer follows. Please remember that this is from just one read through of the story, and a bit of Googling. I reserve the right to be wrong, and to miss important details! This thread is not a comprehensive analysis, just me pointing out stuff that interests me on my first read through. I'm learning as I go along here. But I'm currently at Journey into Mystery 114, and it may be relevant to the Lava Man question for two reasons.
1. The main story (Absorbing Man)
In terms of mass entertainment, this is the start of the golden age of Thor. This is the end of 1964 (cover dated March 1965) when Stan is far too busy to pay much attention. As you know, I read these things by following the art, and only refer to the text as a last resort. Jack's art generally tells the story smoothly and clearly without any need for Stan. In my opinion (see previous reviews) Stan's dialog adds awkward, clunky parts. But JiM 114 iss the start of a series of issues where Stan seems to have less input: they all flow smoothly, with very few jolts. It's beautiful glorious stuff, comics at their very best.
But in this issue there is one twist: an unexpected(?) mist descending during the battle between Thor and the Absorbing Man. What is going on here?
Stan explains it as "Jane has been kidnapped", but there is no evidence for that in the art. Compare the kidnapping of Alicia for the beehive story in Fantastic Four 66 a couple of years later: Jack does not just spring these things without any hint in the art. Also, I have argued before that Jack never cared for Jane. Of course, once Stan has said "it's Jane" then the next issue has to feature Jane. But what did Jack intend, before the added dialog pulled him in that direction? I have argued that Odin placed Thor here for a reason, to test him, and these stories are epics. And that Jane is a distraction of which Odin does not approve. So I think being summoned to Asgard mid-battle must be more important than just "yawn, Jane is in trouble again".
Usually we get an idea of Jack's true intent from the Tales of Asgard feature: I have argued in this thread that since Stan has no idea what is going on in the legends, Jack is able to sneak more of his ideas past the smiling censor. So this issue gets really interesting. Let's look at that story. Again I stress that this review is just my initial thoughts, so I won't follow every possibility or go backward (or to many sources beyond the myths) to try and deconstruct Jack's thoughts.
2. Tales of Asgard: the apples of Idunna
The series of origin stories is interrupted, which suggests that this is important. Idunna's apples are important because the whole Thor story is about gods and men, and the apples legend is about how the gods lost their immortality. (OK, they finally get it back, but later die at Ragnarok, so this is the beginning of the end).
In the original myth it's the ice giant who is the bad guy, taking away the gods' special apples and thus their immortality. Since Loki is the sole survivor of his particular group of giants (which would be genocide in the same way that destroying all jews is genocide even though other humans survive) this makes it especially interesting. In the legends this ice giant opposes Loki. Perhaps for being a traitor to his kind? After all, the original story is about a Jotun (Loki) literally feeding the enemy (Odin). And Loki is genuinely surprised, he is not part of the plot. In Jack's version it is Fenrir in disguise who steals the apples. Fenrir of course is the son of Loki and of a Jotun mother. So Jack is just simplifying the story into five pages: showing the tension in the Jotun community. Casual readers can just see Little Red Riding Hood" and those who know the legends can see the deeper message: it's about Loki's family versus Odin's family, with Loki as the link.
So back to the lava man question, the muspel is of course the realm of fire. And Loki's father was Farbauti, the god of wild fire. I can't really be sure exactly what Jack planned (at least at this stage), but it is clear that he intended the giants to be more than Stan intended: one dimensional characters waiting to fight for no particular reason. Jack's knew the mythology, and how it connected: how Loki linked to fire and to wolves. And how giants were a whole race with their own factions and history. These are details that Stan, judging from his text, knew nothing of.
So short answer: the giants are busy behind the scenes, and Loki is the common link (to giants, to fire, to Fenris) in all the stories.
At least, that's how I see it.
(Marvel Database details: first Absorbing Man)
(The original Apples of Idunna legend)
Mythology 101
A quick reminder for Norse Noobs (i.e. me before starting Thor):
Jotun = giants.
Muspel = land of fire. Loki's father (a Jotun) was god of wildfire.
Loki is a small Jotun, and the gods killed all his Jotun people (though other Jotun survived).
Ragnarok = where the frost giants finally win and kill the gods.
Surtur = a fire Jotun, who will lead in the battle at Ragnarok and consume the Earth in flame
Gods = NOT ALWAYS GOOD. We come from a broadly Christian culture where gods are assumed to always be good. This was not the case in other mythologies. Loki did noble deeds as well as evil, and Odin did underhand stuff as well as good. The comics may seem to simply "good guys and bad guys", but they point to legends that do not.
In Kirby's version, Odin rose to fame by killing frost giants. This is important, as it reminds us that Kirby understood the myths. He was not just grabbing odd sounding names (as Larry Lieber did by inventing "Uru"). Kirby was fascinated by the legends and understood what they meant.
The question
A friend just emailed me with a question about my earlier theory that the lava man was supposed to be a fire giant. I think this brings out the important points of JiM 114, stuff other people don't seem to talk about. If you just want the details of The Absorbing Man, I recommend the Marvel Database. Anyway, his question:
"Any thoughts how Loki and his parents being Muspel Jotun might have played into Kirby's Lava Man being a Muspel?"
1. The main story (Absorbing Man)
In terms of mass entertainment, this is the start of the golden age of Thor. This is the end of 1964 (cover dated March 1965) when Stan is far too busy to pay much attention. As you know, I read these things by following the art, and only refer to the text as a last resort. Jack's art generally tells the story smoothly and clearly without any need for Stan. In my opinion (see previous reviews) Stan's dialog adds awkward, clunky parts. But JiM 114 iss the start of a series of issues where Stan seems to have less input: they all flow smoothly, with very few jolts. It's beautiful glorious stuff, comics at their very best.
But in this issue there is one twist: an unexpected(?) mist descending during the battle between Thor and the Absorbing Man. What is going on here?
Stan explains it as "Jane has been kidnapped", but there is no evidence for that in the art. Compare the kidnapping of Alicia for the beehive story in Fantastic Four 66 a couple of years later: Jack does not just spring these things without any hint in the art. Also, I have argued before that Jack never cared for Jane. Of course, once Stan has said "it's Jane" then the next issue has to feature Jane. But what did Jack intend, before the added dialog pulled him in that direction? I have argued that Odin placed Thor here for a reason, to test him, and these stories are epics. And that Jane is a distraction of which Odin does not approve. So I think being summoned to Asgard mid-battle must be more important than just "yawn, Jane is in trouble again".
Usually we get an idea of Jack's true intent from the Tales of Asgard feature: I have argued in this thread that since Stan has no idea what is going on in the legends, Jack is able to sneak more of his ideas past the smiling censor. So this issue gets really interesting. Let's look at that story. Again I stress that this review is just my initial thoughts, so I won't follow every possibility or go backward (or to many sources beyond the myths) to try and deconstruct Jack's thoughts.
2. Tales of Asgard: the apples of Idunna
The series of origin stories is interrupted, which suggests that this is important. Idunna's apples are important because the whole Thor story is about gods and men, and the apples legend is about how the gods lost their immortality. (OK, they finally get it back, but later die at Ragnarok, so this is the beginning of the end).
In the original myth it's the ice giant who is the bad guy, taking away the gods' special apples and thus their immortality. Since Loki is the sole survivor of his particular group of giants (which would be genocide in the same way that destroying all jews is genocide even though other humans survive) this makes it especially interesting. In the legends this ice giant opposes Loki. Perhaps for being a traitor to his kind? After all, the original story is about a Jotun (Loki) literally feeding the enemy (Odin). And Loki is genuinely surprised, he is not part of the plot. In Jack's version it is Fenrir in disguise who steals the apples. Fenrir of course is the son of Loki and of a Jotun mother. So Jack is just simplifying the story into five pages: showing the tension in the Jotun community. Casual readers can just see Little Red Riding Hood" and those who know the legends can see the deeper message: it's about Loki's family versus Odin's family, with Loki as the link.
So back to the lava man question, the muspel is of course the realm of fire. And Loki's father was Farbauti, the god of wild fire. I can't really be sure exactly what Jack planned (at least at this stage), but it is clear that he intended the giants to be more than Stan intended: one dimensional characters waiting to fight for no particular reason. Jack's knew the mythology, and how it connected: how Loki linked to fire and to wolves. And how giants were a whole race with their own factions and history. These are details that Stan, judging from his text, knew nothing of.
So short answer: the giants are busy behind the scenes, and Loki is the common link (to giants, to fire, to Fenris) in all the stories.
At least, that's how I see it.