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Post by wildfire2099 on Aug 21, 2016 14:19:38 GMT -5
So I had picked up a couple of the pre-Flashpoint JLA a while back that I read today, and I was thinking it might be nice to get the rest of the run... sadly, it's nearly impossible to search for it on ebay, since there are so many series with the same name.
I'll probably get them from mycomicshop, but it makes me feel like there's a lot with my name on it out there someplace that I can't find.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2016 14:50:27 GMT -5
I agree. With all the renumbering it dissuades new readers from going back & getting into a series. The mindset is "jumping on" points...for me it has become "jumping off" points. New readers don't seem to want to go back & read past issues. And if they try it has gotten too complicated. Even trades make no sense in their numbering...
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Post by Icctrombone on Aug 21, 2016 15:05:34 GMT -5
Yeah, at least in the past they used to use volume # in the indicia. Now you need to use the year it started to help you.
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Post by Phil Maurice on Aug 21, 2016 15:36:48 GMT -5
Back in the days before comics were being collected on any sort of grand scale, there was sometimes a perceived stigma to #1 issues. The thinking seems to have been that readers would be more inclined to purchase an established title than something new and untried.
As incomprehensible as this may be in a modern market, consider that the debuts of powerhouse titles like Journey into Mystery and Tales to Astonish (among many others of the time) made no mention of the issue number on the cover.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Aug 21, 2016 16:18:49 GMT -5
Yeah, at least in the past they used to use volume # in the indicia. Now you need to use the year it started to help you. The problem is those things work for comic fans, but not necessarily people selling comics on things like ebay. At least back in the day when they re-started a series, they changed the name (Firestorm vs. Fury of Firestorm... Moon Knight vs. Marc Spector: Moon Knight... JLA vs. JLI, etc) so there was a chance of differentiation.. now people just list it as 'Justice League' or 'Iron Man' with no thought to the volume, so it makes searches ALOT harder. I tried the year thing, as well as the creator, but that gets you only very few hits (and most of those from actual comic stores like Mile High and Lone Star anyway).
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2016 16:34:27 GMT -5
1) Publishers don't care about back issue sales at all, let alone how easy or difficult it is for someone to search them out, they make zero money form it so why should they.
2) When comic customers (retailers and fans) stop buying #1 issues in significantly higher numbers than other issue numbers making them vastly more profitable for publishers than continuing the numbering on series, then they will stop making new #1s.
Until such a time, you get the comics the buying habits of fandom deserve. All the complaining in the world doesn't matter when a new Harley Quinn #1 can sell 400K copies but issue 12 would have only sold 40K. Publishers don't answer to fans, they answer to stockholders and what sell and makes stockholders happy is what they will publish.
-M
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Aug 21, 2016 18:49:01 GMT -5
I read comics for over 50 years so I'm not quite a newcomer and also have experienced plenty of the re-numbering, re-booting and re-gurgitating ploys. I have not bought or read any superhero books for about 3-4 years now. Sometimes, while at the library and perusing the graphic novel area, I say to myself "What the hey, why don't i take out a tradebook of Captain Tight Pants and see what he's been up to, maybe starting with a book shortly after I stopped reading it". But now I have to figure out if the book that's called All New, All Different, All-Dry Cleaned Captain Tight Pants #4.5 A comes before or after The New, The Different, The Starch Free Captain Tight Pants # 00.
I say to myself, " If I'm to be confused by the title and numbering, I'm sure not to enjoy the inside of the book either"
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2016 19:06:48 GMT -5
I read comics for over 50 years so I'm not quite a newcomer and also have experienced plenty of the re-numbering, re-booting and re-gurgitating ploys. I have not bought or read any superhero books for about 3-4 years now. Sometimes, while at the library and perusing the graphic novel area, I say to myself "What the hey, why don't i take out a tradebook of Captain Tight Pants and see what he's been up to, maybe starting with a book shortly after I stopped reading it". But now I have to figure out if the book that's called All New, All Different, All-Dry Cleaned Captain Tight Pants #4.5 A comes before or after The New, The Different, The Starch Free Captain Tight Pants # 00. I say to myself, " If I'm to be confused by the title and numbering, I'm sure not to enjoy the inside of the book either" Thanks. This made me laugh. Wonder what sold better - "All-Dry Cleaned Captain Tight Pants" or "Starch Free Captain Tight Pants"?
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Post by wildfire2099 on Aug 21, 2016 19:29:09 GMT -5
You're right on the short term, mrp, but long term back issue sales lead to new readers, and sales of trades and collections. It's a matter of short term vs. long term planning imo.
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Post by Icctrombone on Aug 21, 2016 19:40:46 GMT -5
You're right on the short term, mrp, but long term back issue sales lead to new readers, and sales of trades and collections. It's a matter of short term vs. long term planning imo. They really don't care. Their owners just want you to see the movie.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Aug 21, 2016 19:44:43 GMT -5
I know, but I can't help but think that they'd make HUGE money if they just got to more fans... sure, the movies bring a short burst of money and merchandise, but if they had big comic sales, it would be massive, sustained earnings.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2016 19:47:38 GMT -5
You're right on the short term, mrp, but long term back issue sales lead to new readers, and sales of trades and collections. It's a matter of short term vs. long term planning imo. Back issue sales don't show up on quarterly reports. If quarterly reports look bad, people lose jobs and reboots happen to spike sales. Long term planning doesn't exist in an industry (print) that most "experts" think will disappear in less than a score of years. You make what money you can in the short term until there is no longer any money to be made. Readership plummeted long before reboots and renumbering were he norm. Looking at the data, renumbering has caused growth, however small, staying the course with numbering showed long term attrition and zero growth. Nobody starts on back issues and comes to new comics unless it is via trades these days, so making back issues easier to find is not planning for long term growth, it is watching sales go to someone else unless you can get a piece of the sales via trades and omnibi. Publishers are not in the secondary collector market, they are in the primary sales department, and there is no hard sales evidence that nurturing the back issue market leads to long term growth in the primary market. I don't think book publishers look at what's selling in used bookstores to see where they should look for long term growth or look to ease sales of out of print books to help lead people to buy books in print. Nor movie/tv studios look to what's selling in second hand video/dvd stores to see what they should look to to increase sales for their current product. There's just no justifiable correlation between secondary sale sand new sales for it to matter. Maybe 20-30 year ago when not everything was available digitally or via trade there might have been some correlation, but it's 3 decades later and the current customer base for new comics has little to no interest in comics from vintage eras or care a whit about "legacy numbering" and ease of back issue purchases. Look at sales of non-evergreen vintage material in trade vs. sales of new releases in collected editions to give you an indication of potential sales in the back issue market. Most series of collected vintage runs have trouble getting past one or two volumes unless they tie directly into a current movie or tv project because there is no interest among a vast majority of current readers in that material, so why should it even be a concern for a publisher whose primary concern is selling current material? Where's the hard data that continued numbering sells better in the current market? Where's the hard data that back issue sales pump new issue sales in the current market of 2016? If they do a cost/benefit analysis of revenue loss and gains for keeping numbering versus putting out #1s, what do you think the data is going to tell them for the short and long term? The current market is not the same market as 1976, 1986, 1996 or even 2006. Tactics, tendencies, and policies form those eras won't do anything in the current market except put a company under. The market evolves and sales patterns have to evolve with it, not throw back to another era that doesn't reflect the buying pattern and preferences of the current customer base. -M
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Post by Hoosier X on Aug 21, 2016 19:48:27 GMT -5
I had trouble with this lately when I decided to work on finishing my run of the Captain Marvel series with Carol Danvers that started in ... 2012, I think, and ended in 2013. It had 16 to 18 issues and I had stopped about #10. The local comic shop had issues numbered #11 to #15 or #16 or so, and I thought "cool, I'll be finishing this run pretty soon." But when I got home, I discovered that the last two issues I had were from the series that started over again with a new #1 in 2014 (I think) and lasted about the same number of issues. And because the new series had started so soon after the just-canceled series, the cover format was very much the same, so it wasn't obvious that the comics were a year and half to two years later than the comics I wanted.
I wouldn't have minded so much if the new series had been even a little bit good.
And I still haven't finished off that Captain Marvel series from 2012.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Aug 21, 2016 20:04:23 GMT -5
THere's no hard evidence, since the market is continually changing, but what they're doing right now isn't working, so why not try something else?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2016 20:28:54 GMT -5
THere's no hard evidence, since the market is continually changing, but what they're doing right now isn't working, so why not try something else? Because that's what they used to do and it worked even more poorly than the current system is working. -M
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