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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2016 14:17:50 GMT -5
What I hate about the 1990s can be summed up in two words.
Rob Liefeld.
And anything he touched.
The artwork burnt the skin from my eyes.
Not a fan of McFarlane's Spidey either....that explains the huge gap in my Spidey run.
But I have been warming up to a number of other 90s series. I began to get Preacher, just before the price went through the roof for the early issues and have the first 50 or so. Should contact my dealer about the rest.
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Post by Icctrombone on Oct 18, 2016 20:13:08 GMT -5
What I hate about the 1990s can be summed up in two words. Rob Liefeld. And anything he touched. The artwork burnt the skin from my eyes. And yet, his popularity paved the way for real change in the comics universe buy introducing Image comics. Thank God for competition.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2016 20:36:34 GMT -5
And yet, his popularity paved the way for real change in the comics universe buy introducing Image comics. That God for competition. Oh, there's no denying he did have his fans and his books sold well but... I just didn't like his artwork. When that gets too distracting, it spoils the book, at least for me.
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Post by Icctrombone on Oct 18, 2016 20:51:57 GMT -5
And yet, his popularity paved the way for real change in the comics universe buy introducing Image comics. That God for competition. Oh, there's no denying he did have his fans and his books sold well but... I just didn't like his artwork. When that gets too distracting, it spoils the book, at least for me. Agreed. but sometimes a bad thing leads to a good thing.
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Oct 18, 2016 21:55:19 GMT -5
And yet, his popularity paved the way for real change in the comics universe buy introducing Image comics. That God for competition. Oh, there's no denying he did have his fans and his books sold well but... I just didn't like his artwork. When that gets too distracting, it spoils the book, at least for me. Yes to me, any competition is good. Anything that challenges the norm, whether that material in of itself is good, is a good thing to an industry. Even outside of comics. It forces the things that exist at the time to consider their place in said industry. I think that's why we have the universal greats all will agree on from the 90's because, at least Marvel and DC were challenged to circumvent their practices to adapt to changes.
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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 19, 2016 13:15:07 GMT -5
Thing was, Rob showed promise, at first. He was raw and undisciplined; but, he had a good visual sense. I thought he was someone to watch, on Hawk & Dove. It turned out that Karl Kesel was doing a lot of cleanup. It seemed to me, when he had more editorial scrutiny, his work was better. As he got more and more freedom, he got looser and sloppier. He was a mess with Youngblood and it's related books. Greg Burgas covered him in his Year of the Artist, at CBR (the late, very lamented Comics Should Be Good blog) and you could see some growth. He had some stuff from post 2000 that looked far sharper than his 90s material. He still used too many lines and his sense of anatomy was still not good; but, his proportions were better and his storytelling stronger. One thing I will say, though, the boy had no grasp of science.
In an interview in Comics Scene, in advance of Youngblood, he was talking about characters and was discussing one of his generic "big guys," Brahma. He said the inspiration came from friends, who were triplets. He asked how that occurred and they said one egg that splits into three (which is rare, as most triplets are born from more than one fertilized egg). Rob says his "warped mind" (his words) wondered what would happen if the egg didn't split? Would a giant baby come out? I sat there, stunned, and said out loud, "No, stupid, normal birth!" It isn't a giant ovum that splits. He then says, elsewhere in the article, that he wanted to quit school to get into comics; but, his parents forced him to get his diploma, before trying to get work. That said it all to me. Later, in the debut issue of Youngblood, he had Shaft, a human character, throw a ballpoint pen, upwards, to a second floor stairwell landing, and impale someone in the throat. That's a neat trick since, (a) the pen has little mass and won't have much impact, (b) he's throwing against the pull of gravity and (c) a ballpoint pen is rather blunt and isn't likely to penetrate the skin unless it is jammed in at close range and in a soft spot. I laughed hysterically at that scene, when I looked at the comics in my LCS.
I can make fun of his work; but, he was very successful and was able to chart his own path, free of the shackles of DC and Marvel. That's worthy of respect, even if his swipes are not.
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Jul 29, 2017 16:57:16 GMT -5
Batman: Manbat (1995) #1-3 Jamie Delano & John Bolton
An Elseworld tale about the Lamgstroms.
The story I think is very solid and well plotted. Unlike most stories I've read (or watched on Batman TAS) the formula controls Langstrom. However in this story that is not the case. It's almost like Hulk post gray Hulk. All the intelligence of Langstrom and all the strength of the creature.
In this story Langstrom tries to make a family. First genetically. He intends a grand scheme of wiping humanity off the Earth before they destroy the Earth itself. Caught in the middle is an non-violent eco-terrorist gal in the wrong place at the wrong time; and Batman. The twist is, it's not Batman that garners the victory to convince Langstrom of his evil scheme. But the "people" Langstrom thought wee on his side.
With art by Bolton it's a very beautiful, yet visceral tale of a family finding its way in the world. And maybe even it's place.
Also some very spot on dialogue for Batman for Delano that borders between the "never cracks a smile" stoic Batman and lol worthy.
Edit: Next I think I'll try the three Batman and Judge Dredd crossovers all written by Grant/Wagner and art from Bisley, Critchlow, Farby and Murray
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jul 29, 2017 20:00:44 GMT -5
Batman: Manbat (1995) #1-3 Jamie Delano & John Bolton An Elseworld tale about the Lamgstroms. The story I think is very solid and well plotted. Unlike most stories I've read (or watched on Batman TAS) the formula controls Langstrom. However in this story that is not the case. It's almost like Hulk post gray Hulk. All the intelligence of Langstrom and all the strength of the creature. In this story Langstrom tries to make a family. First genetically. He intends a grand scheme of wiping humanity off the Earth before they destroy the Earth itself. Caught in the middle is an non-violent eco-terrorist gal in the wrong place at the wrong time; and Batman. The twist is, it's not Batman that garners the victory to convince Langstrom of his evil scheme. But the "people" Langstrom thought wee on his side. With art by Bolton it's a very beautiful, yet visceral tale of a family finding its way in the world. And maybe even it's place. Also some very spot on dialogue for Batman for Delano that borders between the "never cracks a smile" stoic Batman and lol worthy. Edit: Next I think I'll try the three Batman and Judge Dredd crossovers all written by Grant/Wagner and art from Bisley, Critchlow, Farby and Murray This is one of those "it takes all kinds posts. Not trying to be a jerk...but I really hate this book. At the time it came out I was buying pretty much anything with Elseworlds on it. I loved the concept (still do) just as I'd loved DC's imaginary stories and Marvel's What If? But man...this was a perfect storm of stuff I just do not like (but probably didn't realize at the time. First I hate Bolton's art. I know that's probably anathema. But it does nothing for me. I'm not a huge fan of painted comics to begin with, but Bolton's work totally turns me off. I'm also generally not a fan of Delano. I did like his first run on Hellblazer. But other than that, I'm not a big fan of anything else he's done. I'm glad you like it though. I want my money back.
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Post by Icctrombone on Jul 29, 2017 20:23:38 GMT -5
You're not the only one. Boltons art was nothing special to me.
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Post by tarkintino on Jul 30, 2017 1:16:08 GMT -5
The 90s was an explosion of juvenile, overblown dreck, generally led by anything with "X" in its title, and of course, the entire influence of those who would form Image Comics. the industry has yet to shake off the ill effects and reputation caused by that period.
The only true standouts were Zero Hour: Crisis in Time, and a series of stand alone books, among them, several that were not only instant classics of the industry (a rare feat), but earned richly deserved attention by non-comic readers and media: Marvels, Kingdom Come, Superman: Peace on Earth & Batman: War on Crime. Each had no problem surviving the test of time, and are given the respect of any true landmark of a medium.
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Post by EdoBosnar on Jul 30, 2017 3:20:19 GMT -5
Interesting, my feelings about the art of Alex Ross are similar to the feelings expressed about Bolton's art by Slam Bradley and Icctrombone: I'm not the biggest fan. I like his covers, but that's about it; every comic I've read in which he's done the interiors left me a bit cold (and I kind of feel bad saying it, because I know the guy puts a lot of work into it).
Otherwise, I can't comment too much on the general subject of this thread, as I've read so little of what came out during the 1990s (that era coincided with a long hiatus from comics on my part). There's one notable exception, though: Elseworlds. When I discovered these once I got back into comics in the early 2000s, I read as many as I could get my hands on. Love the concept, and so far I've loved pretty much all of the ones I've read (which doesn't include the Man-Bat story adamwarlock2099 mentioned; sounds interesting, though).
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Post by coinilius on Jul 30, 2017 5:32:40 GMT -5
Thing was, Rob showed promise, at first. He was raw and undisciplined; but, he had a good visual sense. I thought he was someone to watch, on Hawk & Dove. It turned out that Karl Kesel was doing a lot of cleanup. It seemed to me, when he had more editorial scrutiny, his work was better. As he got more and more freedom, he got looser and sloppier. He was a mess with Youngblood and it's related books. Greg Burgas covered him in his Year of the Artist, at CBR (the late, very lamented Comics Should Be Good blog) and you could see some growth. He had some stuff from post 2000 that looked far sharper than his 90s material. He still used too many lines and his sense of anatomy was still not good; but, his proportions were better and his storytelling stronger. One thing I will say, though, the boy had no grasp of science. In an interview in Comics Scene, in advance of Youngblood, he was talking about characters and was discussing one of his generic "big guys," Brahma. He said the inspiration came from friends, who were triplets. He asked how that occurred and they said one egg that splits into three (which is rare, as most triplets are born from more than one fertilized egg). Rob says his "warped mind" (his words) wondered what would happen if the egg didn't split? Would a giant baby come out? I sat there, stunned, and said out loud, "No, stupid, normal birth!" It isn't a giant ovum that splits. He then says, elsewhere in the article, that he wanted to quit school to get into comics; but, his parents forced him to get his diploma, before trying to get work. That said it all to me. Later, in the debut issue of Youngblood, he had Shaft, a human character, throw a ballpoint pen, upwards, to a second floor stairwell landing, and impale someone in the throat. That's a neat trick since, (a) the pen has little mass and won't have much impact, (b) he's throwing against the pull of gravity and (c) a ballpoint pen is rather blunt and isn't likely to penetrate the skin unless it is jammed in at close range and in a soft spot. I laughed hysterically at that scene, when I looked at the comics in my LCS. I can make fun of his work; but, he was very successful and was able to chart his own path, free of the shackles of DC and Marvel. That's worthy of respect, even if his swipes are not. I have that issue of Comicscene where there is an interview with Rob where he talks about Brahma's origin - it's actually a fascinating interview about the beginnings of Young Blood and there is a real sense of excitement and passion form Rob, along with some actually interesting ideas... but there's some real howlers as well, including describing Cougar's race as being a 'cat-wolves'!
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,213
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Post by Confessor on Jul 30, 2017 5:51:44 GMT -5
On the subject of painted comic art, I like certain artists: Alex Ross is fantastic and his work on Marvels is especially good, even by his standards. Dave McKean's work on Batman: Arkham Asylum and Joseph Michael Linsner's work is also very nice, but I really don't like Dave Bolton's stuff very much at all. It's too harsh and angular or something.
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Post by LovesGilKane on Jul 30, 2017 5:55:33 GMT -5
90's?
most of the best work from vertigo.
bad executions of decent ideas by Danzig.
significant work paid for/'allowed to be done' by women and non anglo men.
introduction of metaphysical expressions of Batman (thx Kelly Jones).
Deadman mini by Baron and Jones paying tribute to, but not whoring out,the classic film 'Freaks' by Browning.
unlike the 80's (sorry, hipsters, suck some vinyl your mammy paid for), the 90's, in comics gave a lot.
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Post by Icctrombone on Jul 30, 2017 6:10:04 GMT -5
I appreciate he 90's because it gave a lot of new books and concepts the might not have otherwise been attempted in a non-explosion era. Hitman is one of my favorite series of all time. I have to disagree with tarkintino on Zero Hour. I loved it back when it was released but I re-read it a few years ago and it didn't hold up too well. It kept referencing events that happened in other books and it feels dated in that respect. But boy, I love the Dan Jurgens/ Jerry Ordway artwork.
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