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Post by LovesGilKane on Jul 30, 2017 6:30:03 GMT -5
bisley's judgement on gotham.
bisley's painted covers for DC.
'NUFF SAID.
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Post by LovesGilKane on Jul 30, 2017 6:31:48 GMT -5
You're not the only one. Boltons art was nothing special to me. i disagree but respect your opinion. |
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Post by LovesGilKane on Jul 30, 2017 6:41:47 GMT -5
Rob Liefeld was only a part of the inception of Image which should be noted.
An 'organic' artist, Valentino, was also a founding member. though he can be a $@@!!! when confronted on certain things.
but hey, so can we all.
if one wishes to diss the 90's and use Liefeld to do so, it behoves one to also look at the opposite end of the spectrum, and lambast 'cra$@!ty-arse wannabe black-beret art-school w - -k -ge such as half of vertigo's output in the 90's.
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Post by LovesGilKane on Jul 30, 2017 7:18:48 GMT -5
On the subject of painted comic art, I like certain artists: Alex Ross is fantastic and his work on Marvels is especially good, even by his standards. Dave McKean's work on Batman: Arkham Asylum and Joseph Michael Linsner's work is also very nice, but I really don't like Dave Bolton's stuff very much at all. It's too harsh and angular or something. yes, though i still prefer Dave McKean's Violent Cases and Black Orchid mini series. dunno; maybe he liked neil more than grant. |
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Post by LovesGilKane on Jul 30, 2017 7:48:52 GMT -5
The 90s was an explosion of juvenile, overblown dreck, generally led by anything with "X" in its title, and of course, the entire influence of those who would form Image Comics. the industry has yet to shake off the ill effects and reputation caused by that period. The only true standouts were Zero Hour: Crisis in Time, and a series of stand alone books, among them, several that were not only instant classics of the industry (a rare feat), but earned richly deserved attention by non-comic readers and media: Marvels, Kingdom Come, Superman: Peace on Earth & Batman: War on Crime. Each had no problem surviving the test of time, and are given the respect of any true landmark of a medium. i respect your post above. for what you've referenced, you are 'totes' correct. however, despite 'The 90s was an explosion of juvenile, overblown dreck, generally led by anything with "X" in its title,' being correct on the face of it, you are leaving out a lot of other things that happened in the 90's. you leave out what Baron and Jones did with Deadman; post some pages of that work and we'll discuss it, maybe debate it, amicably. you leave out Bisley's work (apart from his ill-fated Kitchen Sink stuff). you leave out the return of The Badger (albeit by a shoddy subset of Image). you leave out a lot of fab work by Steve Rude. and more. maybe ypu haven't seen/read/enjoyed these, but if not, before we talk about the foibles of the 90's in comics, you deserve to treat yourself to truly yummy reading experiences and give the aforementioned publications a try. |
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Jul 30, 2017 10:26:30 GMT -5
Batman: Manbat (1995) #1-3 Jamie Delano & John Bolton An Elseworld tale about the Lamgstroms. The story I think is very solid and well plotted. Unlike most stories I've read (or watched on Batman TAS) the formula controls Langstrom. However in this story that is not the case. It's almost like Hulk post gray Hulk. All the intelligence of Langstrom and all the strength of the creature. In this story Langstrom tries to make a family. First genetically. He intends a grand scheme of wiping humanity off the Earth before they destroy the Earth itself. Caught in the middle is an non-violent eco-terrorist gal in the wrong place at the wrong time; and Batman. The twist is, it's not Batman that garners the victory to convince Langstrom of his evil scheme. But the "people" Langstrom thought wee on his side. With art by Bolton it's a very beautiful, yet visceral tale of a family finding its way in the world. And maybe even it's place. Also some very spot on dialogue for Batman for Delano that borders between the "never cracks a smile" stoic Batman and lol worthy. Edit: Next I think I'll try the three Batman and Judge Dredd crossovers all written by Grant/Wagner and art from Bisley, Critchlow, Farby and Murray This is one of those "it takes all kinds posts. Not trying to be a jerk...but I really hate this book. At the time it came out I was buying pretty much anything with Elseworlds on it. I loved the concept (still do) just as I'd loved DC's imaginary stories and Marvel's What If? But man...this was a perfect storm of stuff I just do not like (but probably didn't realize at the time. First I hate Bolton's art. I know that's probably anathema. But it does nothing for me. I'm not a huge fan of painted comics to begin with, but Bolton's work totally turns me off. I'm also generally not a fan of Delano. I did like his first run on Hellblazer. But other than that, I'm not a big fan of anything else he's done. I'm glad you like it though. I want my money back. I was "flustered" by painted interiors. Alex Ross in Marvels was amazing. But it seemed apart from guys like Bolton or Bisley for some reason. The thing for me with painted interiors that I will admit (and Bolton in dealing with the Batman/Virgil confrontation) is that they seem to be weaker in portraying sequential events. So while, if you like the artists in general, they are nice to look at but not as good of fit for comics. I have to "fill in the blanks" in between panels with my imagination. Because the art comes off like text with pictures rather than a squential art. As far Delano this maybe the only thing I know he's written. His name doesn't ring a bell and I've never read Hellblazer. |
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Post by LovesGilKane on Jul 30, 2017 11:07:55 GMT -5
though all of those were better than the vertigo 'wannabes' of painted interior art in the 90's.
Duncan Fegredo, i'm staring you down, sonny-jim.
you SUCKED.
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Jul 30, 2017 11:26:24 GMT -5
Speaking of painted art. It reminded me of an Aliens story Bisley did in this Aliens issue called The Reapers. imgur.com/a/fWPaNThere's not text just a sequence of his art telling a short story that's kind of comical in the end. Its starts with a huge "hulk type" alien species looking for the Aliens. They fight off lots of drones until they are beset upon by the Queen. The survivors turn tail, grabbing eggs as they leave. One of the eggs being held hatches and as the face hugger jumps out at his face the alien eats it. Last scene in the story is them in some type of market place selling the Aliens' eggs as some kind of delicacy. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Jul 30, 2017 12:13:20 GMT -5
90's? most of the best work from vertigo. bad executions of decent ideas by Danzig. significant work paid for/'allowed to be done' by women and non anglo men. introduction of metaphysical expressions of Batman (thx Kelly Jones). Deadman mini by Baron and Jones paying tribute to, but not whoring out,the classic film 'Freaks' by Browning. unlike the 80's (sorry, hipsters, suck some vinyl your mammy paid for), the 90's, in comics gave a lot. I like your name change. Can I call you LGK for short? |
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Post by LovesGilKane on Jul 30, 2017 12:53:37 GMT -5
90's? most of the best work from vertigo. bad executions of decent ideas by Danzig. significant work paid for/'allowed to be done' by women and non anglo men. introduction of metaphysical expressions of Batman (thx Kelly Jones). Deadman mini by Baron and Jones paying tribute to, but not whoring out,the classic film 'Freaks' by Browning. unlike the 80's (sorry, hipsters, suck some vinyl your mammy paid for), the 90's, in comics gave a lot. I like your name change. Can I call you LGK for short? lol, please feel free to.  |
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Jul 30, 2017 14:01:24 GMT -5
Batman/Judge Dredd: Judgement on Gotham (1991)
Alan Grant/John Wagner and Simon Bisley
With a dimensional belt Judge Death manages to get to Gotham and teams up (after a failed double cross) with Scarecrow and goes on a killing spree.
I like the line on the back of the book "Batman and Judge Dredd-- They may defeat the menace that threatens both their worlds if they can stop fighting each other."
The story itself is a pretty basic plot. I have no knowledge of the Dredd universe outside the three crossovers with Batman, so I can really only go off the Batman characters as to their actions. Dredd and Batman knocking heads was a nice bit of banter. And Bisley did well with illustrating the violence perpetrated by Death. And I think Bisley does a bit better sequentially than Bolton did in Manbat. That said some panels are kind of indistinguishable as to what he is trying to show the reader. I think it's just his extreme style. But he seems the perfect artist for Death himself. Really makes him fearful and demonic looking.
Overall a pretty okay book. I was buying a lot of Batman and then all the "prestige format" books that were coming out for Batman I was pretty much buying them all.
Next is ... The Ultimate Riddle, which I remember liking the best of the three Dredd/Batman crossovers.
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Aug 4, 2017 12:48:57 GMT -5
I must say I'm a tad baffled by some of the dismissive comments about the 90ies. I mean, of course there's lots of great comics throughout the ages, but man do the 90ies hold a high standard in terms of innovation! Sure it also has some of the worst, but if you consider all the good, it's just mind boggling! Just from my collection, and I'm forgetting tons :
100 Bullets
2020 Visions
2099 Unlimited
300
Acme Novelty Library
Aliens: Alchemy, Apocalypse, Glass Corridor, Havoc, Hive, Kidnapped, Labyrinth, Mondo Pest, Salvation, Stronghold, etc
Animal Man (my fave run is the Delano one!)
Aztek: The Ultimate Man
Bacchus
Batman Black and White
Batman: Long Halloween & Dark Victory
Batman: Legends of the Dark Knigh
Batman: No Man's Land
Batman/Grendel
Batman/Judge Dredd: Judgment on Gotham
Big Numbers
The Biologic Show
Black Hole
Bone
Bratpack
Cable (by Tischmann)
Cages
Captain America (Waid)
Castle Waiting
Chase
Clerks: The Comic Book
Clive Barker's Hellraiser (Epic)
Comic Book (John K!)
The Comics Journal in the 90ies was at its absolute best!
Crisis
Daredevil (Marvel Knights)
Daredevil: The Man Without Fear
Dark Horse Presents
Deadman: Exorcism
Death: The High Cost of Living
Demon (The Ennis run)
DenSaga
Dicks
Dork!
Eightball
Enigma
Epicurus the Sage
Exit
The Extremist
Face
Fanboy
The Flash (Waid/Augustyn)
Flex Mentallo
Frank
From Hell
Gear
Goddess
Grendel Tales: Four Devils, One Hell
Grendel: War Child
Hard Boiled
Hate/Junior/The Bradleys/etc
Heart of Empire
Heavy Liquid
Hellblazer
Hellboy
Hitman
Human Target (Vertigo)
I Die at Midnight
Impulse (Waid)
Inhumans
The Invisibles
Jim
JLA
Johnny the Homicidal Maniac
Judge Dredd: The Megazine (America!!!)
Judgment Day
Kill Your Boyfriend
Kingdom Come
League of Extraordinary Gentlemen
Leave It To Chance
Lobo
Lords of Misrule
Love and Rockets/Luba/New Love/Whoa, Nellie!/Birdland etc
Major Bummer
Marshal Law one-shots and minis
The Mask
Maximortal
The Maxx
Mighty Magnor
Milk & Cheese
Miracleman by Gaiman & Buckingham
The Mystery Play
Nevada
New Adventures of Cholly and Flytrap
Oni Double Feature
Optic Nerve
Penthouse Comix
Planetary
Plastic Forks
Preacher
Promethea
Punisher Kills the Marvel Universe
Revolver
Ring of Roses
Rising Stars
Rubber Blanket
Sandman Mystery Theatre
Sandman
Scene of the Crime
Sebastian O
Shade, the Changing Man
Sin City
Skreemer
Son of Mutant World
Starman
Stormwatch (Ellis)
Strangehaven
Stray Bullets
Supergirl (Peter David)
Superman Adventures
Superman For All Seasons
Supreme
Swamp Thing (Mark Millar solo run, some of his very best stuff)
The System
Tank Girl
Tantalizing Stories
Ted McKeever's Metropol
Terminal City
THB
Tom Strong
Top 10
Transmetropolitan
(Bart Simpson's) Treehouse of Horror
Weasel
Why I Hate Saturn
You Are Here
Youngblood (Alan Moore)
I guess the people who cast the 90ies in the bleakest fashion are mostly the old Marvel fans, since that's when Marvel hit rock bottom for hte most part, despite Epic. DC had Vertigo and was trying tons of new concepts throughout the 90ies, with great editors such as Karen Berger & Co of course, but also Peter Tomasi and Berganza then at the top of his game (Chase!). Image is indeed sadly mostly remembered for the post Marvel terds, but how about THe Maxx, Leave It To Chance, all the great Alan Moore books, Stormwatch, Bone, etc? Granted, the great Image decade is the current one, and the 90ies really become to DC, Vertgo, Fantagraphics and Dark Horse, but all in all, what's great abou the 90ies is also how you could find great books with so many publishers (Malibu, Drawn and Quaterly, Tundra, Bongo, Slave Labor, all the self published guys such as Paul Pope, Mazzuchelli, Lapham, etc). These days, the diversity in publishing has changed a lot, and not for the best IMHO. Very few creators self publish anymore.
So yay to the 90ies!
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Post by rom on Aug 4, 2017 19:29:25 GMT -5
Definitely - DC's output in the '90's was far better than Marvel's - if only because of the Vertigo line.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Aug 4, 2017 23:03:43 GMT -5
Not my favorite time for mainstream comics (Although our sister thread reminds me how much DC stuff I like) but I really miss Fantagraphics and Drawn and Quarterly publishing actual comics on a semi-predictable schedule.
Graphic Novels are fine, too, and I'm glad comics are where they are today and yada, yada, yada and etc. But I really miss the racks full of well designed, almost art object indy floppies.
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Post by LovesGilKane on Aug 5, 2017 5:19:15 GMT -5
my one problem with the 90's is the introduction of the downward decline of inking in favour of 'video game digital art' replacing inking, which has now left us with [often pathetically amateurish] photoshop versions of adult coloring books.
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