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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2017 21:11:24 GMT -5
Having seen the grotesque dwarf he called "Billy Batson" in the Legends mini-series, the "pleasure" of a Byrne Captain Marvel can be indefinitely postponed as far as I'm concerned. Ugh. Cei-U! The man can't draw kids! Yeah--but it seemed in the 80s that drawing children was "kryptonite" for a few artists. Re: Byrne v. Perez--for whatever reason, I always looked at Perez as "just an artist," while I felt Byrne was more involved in story and character development. Maybe because X-Men pretty much fell off a cliff as soon as he left. Byrne could write & draw. Perez was good at plot ideas, not full scripts. I thought his art was more detailed than Byrne's. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2017 21:15:09 GMT -5
Jim Lee probably is considered as from a different era than Byrne and Perez, though they overlapped. I think Jim Lee is near the same talent level, but I'm not sure he's been nearly as prolific as Byrne and Perez. Thoughts? With all due respect to Mr. Lee I just don't think he's close to Byrne and Perez in talent. He was good but they were great in their prime. I agree, but I think Jim Lee is closer to their talent level than any other artist who worked in comics in the 90s. Unless I'm forgetting someone. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2017 22:11:21 GMT -5
Jim Lee is probably the most well known artist from the 90's. I think artists like Dan Jurgens & Andy/Adam Kubert were closer to Bryne & Perez in storytelling.
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Post by chadwilliam on Mar 13, 2017 22:16:56 GMT -5
I remember when he was "Mr Fix It". He would do a series & strip the characters back to basics & why they worked. Some ideas were brilliant like Namor's oxygen imbalance affecting his rage. His placing She-Hulk into FF actually worked. Others were not great like splitting Hulk & Banner into two separate beings, no Superboy or his solution to Donna Troy in WW. Bryne & Perez were THE talents to look for in the 80's!
ugh. Knowing Byrne more from whatever his "Superman" was supposed to be and Spider-Man: Chapter One, "Mr Fix It" is not a title I would ever ascribe to him. "Mr Burn it Down and Salt the Earth" would probably be closer to the mark.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2017 22:24:45 GMT -5
I remember when he was "Mr Fix It". He would do a series & strip the characters back to basics & why they worked. Some ideas were brilliant like Namor's oxygen imbalance affecting his rage. His placing She-Hulk into FF actually worked. Others were not great like splitting Hulk & Banner into two separate beings, no Superboy or his solution to Donna Troy in WW. Bryne & Perez were THE talents to look for in the 80's!
ugh. Knowing Byrne more from whatever his "Superman" was supposed to be and Spider-Man: Chapter One, "Mr Fix It" is not a title I would ever ascribe to him. "Mr Burn it Down and Salt the Earth" would probably be closer to the mark.
Well that was his unofficial title back in the early 80's on his Marvel stuff. His Superman was a mixed bag for me. And I never read Spider-Man: Chapter One. |
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Post by chadwilliam on Mar 13, 2017 22:38:47 GMT -5
ugh. Knowing Byrne more from whatever his "Superman" was supposed to be and Spider-Man: Chapter One, "Mr Fix It" is not a title I would ever ascribe to him. "Mr Burn it Down and Salt the Earth" would probably be closer to the mark.
Well that was his unofficial title back in the early 80's on his Marvel stuff. His Superman was a mixed bag for me. And I never read Spider-Man: Chapter One.
It seems as if his Fantastic Four run is almost universally praised. Certainly, much of what I've of heard of it sounds inspired to me - the idea that The Thing can't revert to his Ben Grimm form because of a psychological block adds so much depth to the character while not only respecting but building on the work of Lee and Kirby. He did some nice Batman stuff - The Many Deaths of The Batman, a 3-D Special in 1990 which may have been my introduction to Byrne, and a drawing style which perfectly blends Neal Adams with Dick Sprang - but at some point he seemed to think that he knew better than some of comics greatest creators. When you start thinking "Boy, Siegel and Shuster had no idea how to do Superman, so I guess it's up to me to teach them" then it's probably time to step away from writing.
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Post by berkley on Mar 13, 2017 23:13:27 GMT -5
"Just Saying" and "There I said it" are basically the same thing. There I said it, just saying. There's a slight difference in tone or attitude, though, wouldn't you say? "There, I said it" feels a shade more assertive to me - not confrontational or defiant exactly, but heading in that direction. "Just saying" seems almost slightly apologetic in comparison. |
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Post by berkley on Mar 13, 2017 23:25:38 GMT -5
Forgot to ask: what about Alpha Flight - where does that series fit into Byrne's oeuvre? Is it more like his FF & later work or more like his X-Men and previous style? I was just getting out of Marvel around the time it started so I've never read it. I'm thnking about looking for the back issues now but feel a bit leery about it since it falls in that transition zone between what I see as the good and the bad Byrne. Also, I believe he wrote or co-wrote it and I have no faith in Byrne as a writer. However, I might try it anyway, if the artwork is still in his early style.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Mar 14, 2017 8:39:04 GMT -5
Forgot to ask: what about Alpha Flight - where does that series fit into Byrne's oeuvre? Is it more like his FF & later work or more like his X-Men and previous style? I was just getting out of Marvel around the time it started so I've never read it. I'm thnking about looking for the back issues now but feel a bit leery about it since it falls in that transition zone between what I see as the good and the bad Byrne. Also, I believe he wrote or co-wrote it and I have no faith in Byrne as a writer. However, I might try it anyway, if the artwork is still in his early style. , the comic, was a simple cash grab at first; the team had had success as supporting characters in X-Men, and of course Byrne was the perfect choice for producing the book. He wrote and drew the first 28 issues, if I remember well, until he swapped it to Bill Mantlo in return for The Incredible Hulk. Creatively, the first year was pretty ho-hum. Forgettable villains, pretty standard super-heroics, and very few of those great designs Byrne was known for at the time (apart from Guardian's outfit, but that one had been created before the first issue). The pages looked strangely empty, if you ask me, especially when compared to a typical Iron Fist or X-Men page. Sometimes it looks like an artistic experiment, but often it just looks like a time-saving measure. Then after a year something totally unexpected happened, really changing the tone of the book. I don't want to spoil it, but it was really from the left field, and the following issues were a very good exercise in character development. I think those issues were the most interesting of the run. Then we got into an odd retcon-that's-not-a-retcon storyline that made some comic-book sense, but was a little too self-involved for my taste; and finally, there was a big battle with supernatural baddies. Byrne left at that point, and the title (as far as I am concerned) turned into a complete mess. |
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Post by The Cheat on Mar 14, 2017 15:46:13 GMT -5
The pages looked strangely empty, if you ask me Is this a nice (and incredibly subtle) reference to the snowstorm issue?  |
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Post by kirby101 on Mar 14, 2017 16:28:17 GMT -5
"Just Saying" and "There I said it" are basically the same thing. There I said it, just saying. There's a slight difference in tone or attitude, though, wouldn't you say? "There, I said it" feels a shade more assertive to me - not confrontational or defiant exactly, but heading in that direction. "Just saying" seems almost slightly apologetic in comparison. I suppose. One is certainly more passive aggressive  |
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Post by badwolf on Mar 14, 2017 17:18:24 GMT -5
Forgot to ask: what about Alpha Flight - where does that series fit into Byrne's oeuvre? Is it more like his FF & later work or more like his X-Men and previous style? I was just getting out of Marvel around the time it started so I've never read it. I'm thnking about looking for the back issues now but feel a bit leery about it since it falls in that transition zone between what I see as the good and the bad Byrne. Also, I believe he wrote or co-wrote it and I have no faith in Byrne as a writer. However, I might try it anyway, if the artwork is still in his early style. I loved his Alpha Flight, one of his top works IMO. After the first few issues there are several "solo" (or duo in the case of Northstar & Aurora) stories, which I think was a good idea as it enabled him to develop them beyond "just a bunch of characters created to stand up to the X-Men", as he put it. I'm not sure really what to compare it to as far as his other work. He was doing it at the same time as the FF, but it's a completely different type of book. The art isn't loose like he does now, if that's what you mean. I agree with Roquefort that after he left the book it went straight downhill. |
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Post by LovesGilKane on Jun 22, 2017 3:51:35 GMT -5
I always thought John Byrne was overrated. Nothing he's done - that I have read - stood out as being anything special. (Sorry!) i'd like to debate that re his Starlord work. |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jun 22, 2017 10:27:41 GMT -5
I always thought John Byrne was overrated. Nothing he's done - that I have read - stood out as being anything special. (Sorry!) i'd like to debate that re his Starlord work. One of my favourite comic-books ever. |
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Post by LovesGilKane on Jun 22, 2017 21:43:41 GMT -5
'I agree with Roquefort that after he left the book it went straight downhill.' ~ badwolf
indeed, i never purchased a non Byrne Alpha Flight. though it did usher in Mignola, to an extent.
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