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Post by pinkfloydsound17 on Oct 8, 2017 18:31:22 GMT -5
I also like Carnage and Venom...before they were overused. Venom was a good concept and I liked the look. Also, the hate towards Parker was a good angle. Carnage upped the anti and just had a general psycho with the same abilities. I liked how Venom and Spidey had to team up to take Carnage down, even if the whole premise got unnecessarily overblown. It should have stuck at that but of course, because everyone had to have more, they just pumped out as much Venom and Carnage, thus diluting any interest their initial characterization may have had.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Oct 8, 2017 20:10:37 GMT -5
Marvel legacy characters. This should only b a province of DC given their history (much like all the top characters having to be on the Avengers). Legacy characters are iffy in general, but right now there are at least three Jr. Spider-Men running around that I know of. Spider-Gwen is, of course, the biggest mistake. How did this get past the pitch stage? I could see writers getting fired and blacklisted from Marvel for even joking about ths back during the Shooter era.  A black Iron Man? A replacement Captain America! Shooter would never have allowed that. Honestly there are a lot of current Marvel books that would never fly during the Shooter era because they're too original in concept, structure, and storytelling. I like a lot of eighties Marvel but the vast majority of stuff was derivative, predictable, and unchallenging. (Although I can certainly see how all those things are a virtue in corporate product!) |
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Oct 10, 2017 2:41:07 GMT -5
Carnage is a good one! The same "let's add a bunch of sex and violence to titillate moronic fourteen year olds" approach shared by every other character and creator in the nineties... But here he made Spider-man stupider by association!
Spidey has always been about morality and taking responsibility for your actions. Once you add a cartoon psycho killer with no motivation beyond "he's all crazy and stuff" it undercuts the moral logic of the whole Spider-man story.
But, y'know, leave it to '90s Marvel to not understand the basic themes of their characters.
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Post by Nowhere Man on Oct 12, 2017 0:37:33 GMT -5
Marvel legacy characters. This should only b a province of DC given their history (much like all the top characters having to be on the Avengers). Legacy characters are iffy in general, but right now there are at least three Jr. Spider-Men running around that I know of. Spider-Gwen is, of course, the biggest mistake. How did this get past the pitch stage? I could see writers getting fired and blacklisted from Marvel for even joking about ths back during the Shooter era. A black Iron Man? A replacement Captain America! Shooter would never have allowed that. Honestly there are a lot of current Marvel books that would never fly during the Shooter era because they're too original in concept, structure, and storytelling. I like a lot of eighties Marvel but the vast majority of stuff was derivative, predictable, and unchallenging. (Although I can certainly see how all those things are a virtue in corporate product!) We'll have to agree to disagree that stuff like Spider-Gwen is innovative. I mean, I suppose it is technically, but something can be innovative and incredibly stupid and "fan-wanky" at the same time. To be honest, I was never a fan of those replacements. I'll add Eric Masterson to that list as well. I realize that writers get bored and want to shake things up, or feel they need to to leave a mark, but at the end of the day Marvel and DC are McDonald's and Burger King. When I want a Whopper don't get cute. The other side of that, of course, is that sometimes I want steak. I suppose I'm puzzled by people who pick up an issue of Spider-Man in the hopes that they'd be "challenged" on some deep level intellectually. I hope for this when I try a new Image series, but then again my mindset is completely different from when I'm intentionally indulging in nostalgia fueled adventure stories. This isn't an anti-innovation mantra, because I loved and love Vertigo, Sandman, most of what Alan Moore has done, just about anything Moebius, Epic Illustrated, modern Image, etc. I simply tend to come and go with most long established characters and when I'm in the mood for Iron Man, or Cap, or Batman, I'm interested in a synthesis of the core mythos (think BTAS) as opposed to a watered-down Vertigo take, legacy characters and replacements. |
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Oct 12, 2017 1:16:00 GMT -5
Yeah, actually, now that I think none of my favorite current Marvel titles are the "legacy" books - except for Ms. Marvel. Squirrel Girl, Mockingbird, the Vision, Silver Surfer, Karnak, Moon Knight...
I do like girl Thor, but you could write "Plank of Wood with a hammer" and I would think they were more interesting than old Thor.
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Post by Nowhere Man on Oct 12, 2017 3:12:00 GMT -5
Thor is an interesting case. I'm a "fan" of the overall series and concept, love the Kirby and Simonson runs, but I can't say that I care much about his character either since he's basically written as a well-adjusted jock with perfect hair and flawless nobility, who always wins. I don't dislike the character, I just wouldn't have a desire to hang out with him like I would Peter Parker or Ben Grimm.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Oct 12, 2017 3:16:57 GMT -5
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like Thor comics and I like Thor's supporting cast and I like Thor-as-excuse-to-draw-giant-mythological-fight-scenes, but under the Shakesperean accent there really doesn't seem to be anything there, character-wise.
Side-Note: It does bug me when, say, Spider-Man or Cap are replaced with out-and-out villains. Just no interest in that at all.
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Post by Icctrombone on Oct 12, 2017 6:22:52 GMT -5
I say Thee Nay!!!! Thor is one of the most interesting Characters with one of the most spectacular settings ever created. 
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Post by brutalis on Oct 12, 2017 8:03:39 GMT -5
I say Thee Nay!!!! Thor is one of the most interesting Characters with one of the most spectacular settings ever created. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2017 8:30:55 GMT -5
Carnage is a good one! The same "let's add a bunch of sex and violence to titillate moronic fourteen year olds" approach shared by every other character and creator in the nineties... But here he made Spider-man stupider by association! I'm glad you are a fan of Carnage! |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Oct 12, 2017 8:36:39 GMT -5
Or as Beta Ray bill would say it: I SAY THEE NEIGH!!!!Thor and his fellow Asgardian's are rich with character and possibilities. The problem lies more with the writer's who can't seem to delve deeply into the tapestry of mythology and history of these Aesir Gods. There have been moments with superbly written and drawn runs and then runs of mediocrity. Thor needs a writer and artist who "get" all the things which make Thor work so well without him being the Marvel answer to Superman. Forsooth! "Let's dress Thor in bonding gear and let him have sex with the Enchantress"... "Let's make Asgardians space aliens"... "Let's have Thor be plagued by self-doubt"... "Let's replace old Asgard with some new Asgard!"... THAT DOESN'T WORK. Thor is a god, for Asgard's sake. He's got one foot on Earth and the other in Norse myths, which are a treasure-trove of possibilities. He offers the possibility to play with the really big toys from the Nine Worlds, or to build up the contrast between Bombastic Kirby Godhood and down-to-Earth activities. Thor's character as a well-adjusted jock (I love that expression!) is not a flaw, it is a feature! We need a few of those -the heroes who will step up to the plate and knock it out of the ballpark without being a jerk about it or agonize endlessly about how hard life is for them. I wouldn't want all heroes to be like that, of course, but with Thor it's just right. (Please, Marvel, cut that "Odinson" cr#p and give him his left arm back, already. If you want Jane to go on as Thor for a while, just let the real one relax with a barrel of mead for a few years). The forging of Thor's hammer caused the extinction of the dinosaurs. The Odinsword was forged from the Ring of the Nibelung, and the Destroyer was made to face the Fourth Host of the Celestials. Armies of Trolls can erupt at any time from the New York subway tunnels. That's the kind of over-the-top stuff I want in Thor! It leaves little room for him to wonder what his motivation really is or how he could get his groove back in a thankless and superficial world, and it's just fine that way! |
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Post by Prince Hal on Oct 12, 2017 9:07:40 GMT -5
Please take this with a truckload of salt, as I've been observing, rather than reading, new comics, for quite a while, but whenever I hear about the gimmicks Marvel has been using to juice up interest in their iconic characters, many of them sound like the kinds of Silver Age DC stories (imaginary and otherwise) that were derided -- and often still are -- as being juvenile and beneath the dignity of the medium.
Spider-Man grows six arms? Gwen gets spider powers? Thor is replaced by a woman? Norman Osborn and Gwen Stacy are lovers? Various Earths with different versions of characters? These might as well be from Lois Lane, Superboy and Action Comics circa 1963.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Oct 12, 2017 9:29:26 GMT -5
Please take this with a truckload of salt, as I've been observing, rather than reading, new comics, for quite a while, but whenever I hear about the gimmicks Marvel has been using to juice up interest in their iconic characters, many of them sound like the kinds of Silver Age DC stories (imaginary and otherwise) that were derided -- and often still are -- as being juvenile and beneath the dignity of the medium. Spider-Man grows six arms? Gwen gets spider powers? Thor is replaced by a woman? Norman Osborn and Gwen Stacy are lovers? Various Earths with different versions of characters? These might as well be from Lois Lane, Superboy and Action Comics circa 1963. Well observed! It should be called the Ouroboros syndrome. |
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Post by badwolf on Oct 12, 2017 9:34:30 GMT -5
What is with this creepy obsession with Gwen Stacy anyway? Spider-Gwen, Gwenpool...anything else? Is this one writer's fetish?
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Post by brutalis on Oct 12, 2017 10:05:03 GMT -5
Why is it that Jim Hammond the original android of the MU and the ORIGINAL Human Torch cannot be allowed to be a Torch? Every writer in the world keeps on coming up with some BS as to keep him from being a true Torch and being shown on fire. What the Hell? We can have umpteen Spider-Man's running around and everybody and their brother can be a Captain America and every damn hero has become a legacy character with versions of them before, during and after their lifetime but we can't have 2 Flaming Torch's in the MU? Why can't the ORIGINAL be shown to having greater and more powerful flames or using them in very different ways without having to resort to dousing his flame? Come on Marvel Corporate! Let Hammond's birthright flame brightly for all to see.
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