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Post by wildfire2099 on Oct 12, 2017 21:24:04 GMT -5
No, no, no, no, no! You're missing the point! Those stories were for kids! These are for grownups!
Seriously, though, sometimes I wonder how long these characters can go on. Sure, there have been fictional heroes that have been around longer, going back to Odysseus, as well as characters that have generated new stories for longer (Tarzan, Sherlock Holmes), but have there ever been characters that have had new stories piled on month after month for 50 or 75 years? Sometimes they just seem so tired to me. Love this! The only analogue I can think of off the top of my head is soap operas. even Soap Operas change up the cast every 15 years or so |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Oct 12, 2017 21:27:34 GMT -5
Next thing they'll tell us it doesn't have anything to do with pools of any kind, dead or otherwise. "It's just a name, isn't it. She could've been called the Shoe." Come to think of it, does the name Deadpool make any sense? I've heard of someone being a dead shot, but have no idea what the words dead and pool are supposed to signify when put together. I think the name is the best part of Deadpool! I mean, it's stupid, pointless, and nonsensical. But slightly less so than every other Deadpool trait. Definitely not one of Rob Leifeld's best days as a creator. (Also: I am getting Gwenpool trades out of the library right now. See what you guys made me do?!) I disagree.. Deadpool is probably more popular and been in more comics than every other Liefield creation combined x10. |
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Post by Prince Hal on Oct 12, 2017 21:45:26 GMT -5
Love this! The only analogue I can think of off the top of my head is soap operas. even Soap Operas change up the cast every 15 years or so But not the characters. |
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Post by berkley on Oct 12, 2017 22:20:52 GMT -5
even Soap Operas change up the cast every 15 years or so But not the characters. And comics change the artists - the analogy continues to hold! |
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Post by Cei-U! on Oct 13, 2017 7:32:25 GMT -5
Both the comics character and the Clint Eastwood movie take their names from the concept of a "dead pool," a morbid game in which gamblers bet on which of a designated list of celebrities will be the first to die. The term dates back to at least the mid-'80s. I know, because I participated in one when I worked at PACCAR.
Cei-U!
I summon the Grim Reaper!
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Post by Icctrombone on Oct 13, 2017 7:34:51 GMT -5
The movie actually shows this. He gets his name when a friend shows a deadpool chart in the bar he owns.
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Post by masterofquackfu on Oct 13, 2017 22:09:40 GMT -5
I found another candidate...Madcap. I was reading an old back issue of Captain America and found him. Vaguely remembered him. He was involved in a bus accident(the only survivor) and got drenched with some chemical agents that gave him the power "not to be killed." I guess it also drove him insane. Oh, and his eyes have a power that makes people become insane. He also carriers a gun that he bought from Woolworth's(that really dates the character!), which he uses to attract people to his magical spinning eyes. My question is..if he has such powers, why hasn't be graduated to a higher level of criminality? Yeah, I know he is insane and this blunts his true use of the power, but he still is cogent enough at times to plan for greater things. Perhaps he did in future issues, although I am not sure what other books he appeared in. I just found his character to be pretty bad(and not in the good way). And the coloration of the costume was pretty abysmal as well. So, on the 'ol Mort-o-meter, he would rank right up there.
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Post by Nowhere Man on Oct 14, 2017 8:03:59 GMT -5
I found another candidate...Madcap. I was reading an old back issue of Captain America and found him. Vaguely remembered him. He was involved in a bus accident(the only survivor) and got drenched with some chemical agents that gave him the power "not to be killed." I guess it also drove him insane. Oh, and his eyes have a power that makes people become insane. He also carriers a gun that he bought from Woolworth's(that really dates the character!), which he uses to attract people to his magical spinning eyes. My question is..if he has such powers, why hasn't be graduated to a higher level of criminality? Yeah, I know he is insane and this blunts his true use of the power, but he still is cogent enough at times to plan for greater things. Perhaps he did in future issues, although I am not sure what other books he appeared in. I just found his character to be pretty bad(and not in the good way). And the coloration of the costume was pretty abysmal as well. So, on the 'ol Mort-o-meter, he would rank right up there. I first encountered Madcap in the old Marvel Super Heroes RPG of all places. I think I got it in 1988 (was released in 86) and had been reading comics for about two years as a regular collector at that point. Even as a neophyte Marvel fan, I could tell that that guy was out of place. I mean you have stats for Doctor Doom, Loki, Doc Ock, the Red Skull...and here comes Madcap. I get the feeling that he was included in the game by special request. Someone at Marvel was obviously trying to push him. "He's going to be OUR Joker!" |
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Post by Nowhere Man on Oct 14, 2017 8:20:56 GMT -5
Thor's character as a well-adjusted jock (I love that expression!) is not a flaw, it is a feature! We need a few of those -the heroes who will step up to the plate and knock it out of the ballpark without being a jerk about it or agonize endlessly about how hard life is for them. I wouldn't want all heroes to be like that, of course, but with Thor it's just right. (Please, Marvel, cut that "Odinson" cr#p and give him his left arm back, already. If you want Jane to go on as Thor for a while, just let the real one relax with a barrel of mead for a few years). Except - at least during the Stan Lee era - he was always whining about his girlfriend problems and daddy issues and... the same stuff that every Marvel character complained about. I mean Thor CAN work when he has another character to play against....  Who is the more interesting and pivotal character in this scene? Yep, boring ol' Thor is getting upstaged by "Cab driver who appears in five panels and never again." If this were in a Spider-Man, Fantastic Four, Iron Man comic the actual hero who has their name on the book would be the focus of the scene. Not in Thor. Every other character in Thor is always more interesting than Thor. Again, I like Thor COMICS just fine. I can suffer through 14 pages of Thor going "Forsooth! I am going to do boring things boringly!" for 3 panels of Volstagg. I pretty much feel the same way you do. I don't find Thor boring, because I think you need "well adjusted jocks" to contrast the more personable characters like The Thing or Spider-Man. I recently re-read FF #25 (the first meeting of the FF and the Avengers) and this really stood out when Thor and the Thing interacted. Thor shouldn't crack jokes or be turned into Tony Stark to make him more "relatable" (I'm looking at your Jason Aaron's Dr. Strange) but he can be made a bit more nuanced without losing the core of the character. I think Walt Simonson did a good job at this during his run, even though it was subtle (Loki and Balder were more interesting characters during that run I must admit.). This is a problem I've always had with Superman. I'm a Superman fan, but for the life of me I don't know why DC won't give him the nuance that Christopher Reeve gave him in Superman: The Movie. You don't have to make Clark Kent a full-blown nerd, and I don't think directly adapting the movie is the answer, but SOMETHING beyond stoic and well-adjusted would be nice. |
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Post by Hoosier X on Oct 14, 2017 12:56:57 GMT -5
Crystal's marriage to Quicksilver and the subsequent habit of basing all her stories on some relationship drama, love affairs, marriages, new boyfriends, etc - it is or should be an embarrassment in this day and age to limit any female character that way, let alone one that wasn't so limited before you got your hands on it. Crystal was such a great character before that! I love those issues of FF where she's taking Sue's place during Sue's pregnancy. The marriage to Quicksilver ruined both characters. |
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Post by Cei-U! on Oct 14, 2017 14:06:58 GMT -5
The Crystal-Quicksilver marriage never made sense to me except as a convenient way for Roy Thomas and Steve Englehart to write the characters out of Fantastic Four and Avengers.
Cei-U!
I summon the annulment papers!
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Post by sunofdarkchild on Oct 17, 2017 11:43:13 GMT -5
Most marriage ending storylines I feel fit this bill of terrible stories and decisions for the characters. One More Day may be the most reviled, but it was only the latest of a terrible trend of the big 2 doing everything they can to ensure no one ever stays married. Johnny Storm marries Alicia Masters - turn her into a skrull. Vision and the Scarlett Witch are the insanely popular unlikely love story? We can't have that.
On that subject, I feel that the return of Jean Grey was terrible for both her character and for Cyclops and Madelyne Prior as well. It of course ended Cyke's marriage and turned him into a walkout deadbeat dad, made Marvel turn Maddie into a villain just to salvage something from Cyclops' character, and needlessly retconned what was considered the greatest X-Men story. Such a bad creative decision, and set the standard for future terrible returns of dead characters.
DC editorial had a strange obsession with turning Tim Drake into a mini-Bruce Wayne and making him yet another bat-orphan. When Chuck Dixon was still writing he fended off the ravenous wolves, but when he was gone they finally got their wish, killing off most of Tim's supporting cast, making him darker, more like Batman and Nightwing, and just less interesting overall. Tim's character has never fully recovered from that mistake.
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Post by The Captain on Oct 17, 2017 14:57:39 GMT -5
Most marriage ending storylines I feel fit this bill of terrible stories and decisions for the characters. One More Day may be the most reviled, but it was only the latest of a terrible trend of the big 2 doing everything they can to ensure no one ever stays married. Johnny Storm marries Alicia Masters - turn her into a skrull. Vision and the Scarlett Witch are the insanely popular unlikely love story? We can't have that. On that subject, I feel that the return of Jean Grey was terrible for both her character and for Cyclops and Madelyne Prior as well. It of course ended Cyke's marriage and turned him into a walkout deadbeat dad, made Marvel turn Maddie into a villain just to salvage something from Cyclops' character, and needlessly retconned what was considered the greatest X-Men story. Such a bad creative decision, and set the standard for future terrible returns of dead characters. DC editorial had a strange obsession with turning Tim Drake into a mini-Bruce Wayne and making him yet another bat-orphan. When Chuck Dixon was still writing he fended off the ravenous wolves, but when he was gone they finally got their wish, killing off most of Tim's supporting cast, making him darker, more like Batman and Nightwing, and just less interesting overall. Tim's character has never fully recovered from that mistake. Let's also not forget how Marvel destroyed the entire character and legacy of Hank Pym with one slap, ending his marriage and turning him from "founding member of the Avengers Hank Pym" into "wife-beater Hank Pym" for all time. What is sad is that Jim Shooter (who wrote the story in question) has said that the slap was not supposed to be intentional (it was supposed to have been an accident, as Hank was flailing his arms in frustration and Janet came too close to him), but that the artist, Bob Hall, misinterpreted the script and drew it as though Hank was hauling off on his wife. |
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Post by tarkintino on Oct 17, 2017 15:57:22 GMT -5
Marvel had a brief obsession with the skateboard fad of the 1970s, and as a result, soiled two flagship titles--  Terrible beyond belief. |
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Post by Cei-U! on Oct 17, 2017 16:21:27 GMT -5
I'll see your Rocket Racer and raise you one Hypno-Hustler. Cei-U! That's the way, uh-huh, uh-huh, I hate it! |
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