shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,874
|
Post by shaxper on Aug 20, 2018 6:30:22 GMT -5
And hey, Shax, sorry buddy; but, I was getting bored with Magnus, by Unity. It had been getting a tad monotonous prior to Unity and was really rough for four issues (the Unity tie-ins and two issues following). After that, it found new direction and really did pick up again, certainly for The Malev War era, and especially The Terran Consortium Era. If you ever have the time and interest, I strongly recommend giving these a second chance.
|
|
|
Post by rberman on Aug 20, 2018 23:07:35 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by codystarbuck on Aug 20, 2018 23:29:00 GMT -5
The Filipino artists did some beautiful work , especially in things like the Tarzan books and DC's attempts at sword & sorcery. Those guys had that moody style that just fit perfectly in those books. Same with the Spanish artists who worked for Warren and Charlton.
|
|
|
Post by brutalis on Aug 21, 2018 9:56:02 GMT -5
Some of the best artwork during the 70's and 80's was found under Filipino ink. They may have obliterated the pencils of other artists under their own illustrative styles but damn it was beautiful to gaze upon. The likes of Alcala, DeZuniga, Nebres, Chan, Talaoc and Redondo just to name a few were easily identifiable to my untrained youthful eye. No matter what they were doing it always was just simply gorgeous artwork. I would buy the DC horror comics even though the printing and colors were atrocious just to enjoy the art.
|
|
|
Post by beccabear67 on Aug 21, 2018 22:59:57 GMT -5
Nestor Redondo was one of the greatest ink artists I've ever seen. Alex Nino was also amazing. I honestly didn't care for them inking certain artists but on their own or over more generic pencils or layouts Rudy Nebres and others were great. Frank Redondo did a lot of work for the DC war comics.
|
|
|
Post by rberman on Aug 22, 2018 16:57:33 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by rberman on Aug 22, 2018 17:41:48 GMT -5
Maybe more humor than horror, but JayJay Jackson reports that her very 80s hairstyle was the basis for the Transformers character Circuit Breaker:
|
|
|
Post by codystarbuck on Aug 22, 2018 19:06:36 GMT -5
Having read the thing, I think Shooter is looking for scapegoats. Yeah, it was an underhanded tactic by Marvel (one perpetuated under his watch, with Marvelman); but, that thing died on its own merits (or lack thereof). It was never going to be the TMNT. Marvel had tried the same thing with XO Manowar and Valiant told them to sue and Marvel backed down, knowing that you can't trademark a letter of the alphabet and they would be laughed out of court. Why Shooter decided to negotiate with Marvel is beyond me, as they had already beaten Marvel to the punch with advance ads and plasm is a property of nature. Now, given the success of Valiant (up to that point), it does sound like Marvel was deliberately F-ing with Shooter; but, it also sounds like he and/or his backers didn't have the testicular fortitude that Valiant had. Also sounds like they didn't have the funding. Warriors of Plasm was not helped by the bottom dropping out in the collectible card market (which added to Marvel's woes, after they bought Fleer) and the deluge of gimmicky crap from everyone; but, especially Marvel and DC. You needed a submersible to get through their junk to find the schlock from the smaller guys, let alone the good stuff buried by it all! The releasing of the first issue as a trading card set was seen by many fans as a pretty s#@tty gimmick, since you couldn't get the whole thing as a set (you had to find all of the cards, packed randomly) and was heavily boycotted. Shooter drew a lot of fire in the comic press with exaggerated claims, in his Defiant press releases, which put a black cloud over Defiant, before they shipped their first item. All of that helped sink them quickly, not just the lawsuit (though it killed their cash flow, the lifeblood of any publisher). Defiant also lacked for big name creative talent, in the eyes of the 90s audience. Ditko was there; but, Ditko in 1993 didn't mean what Ditko had in 1963 or 1973 (hell, even '83). Len Wein and Chris Claremont contributed; but, Wein had been mostly an editor for a long time and a large share of the potential audience didn't know from him as a writer, Swamp Thing and X-Men notwithstanding. Claremont was pushed off X-Men and wasn't exactly knocking things out of the park with other books (he wrote some good stuff, like the Star Trek: Debt of Honor GN) and most just wanted to read him writing X-Men, if they weren't already burnt out on his stuff. David Lapham was the one new artist to emerge at Valiant; but, that was under Valiant's house style and he hadn't really established himself on his own; and, wouldn't, really, until Stray Bullets. That left Alan Weiss, who is and was a fine artist and War Dancer was the really interesting and unique book at defiant; but, it wasn't a marquee name. You just didn't have anyone with a current superstar atmosphere, like a George Perez or the Image bunch (even if Defiant did have better artists).
|
|
|
Post by codystarbuck on Aug 22, 2018 19:08:20 GMT -5
Maybe more humor than horror, but JayJay Jackson reports that her very 80s hairstyle was the basis for the Transformers character Circuit Breaker: I take it she bought mousse by the case....
|
|
|
Post by rberman on Aug 23, 2018 13:30:13 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by codystarbuck on Aug 23, 2018 15:10:48 GMT -5
Interesting, though it illustrates why I've never really warmed to him, as a person. In the process of telling an interesting and unusual anecdote, he proceeds to take a swipe at the DC Dollar Comics, as if every decision he made was 100 % correct and that Marvel didn't produce flops under his watch. It's meant as a joke; but, on the cold page, it makes him sound like a bit of an a-hole. Take that part out, and it's an interesting story that puts him in a good light. Defending the Dollar Comics, they were actually some pretty darn good books; a nice mix of stories and generally worth the price. Sure, you could buy two comics for the price of one of those; but, given some of the product out there, at the time, that Dollar Comic was often a better bet. It wasn't universal, as some were better (Detective Comics) than others (Superman Family, at times). Thing was, Jenette Kahn and Paul Levitz were experimenting (things like Time Warp, with sweet Kaluta art) and trying to shake off the doldrums of past publishing, while Shooter was homogenizing Marvel, with a few bright lights that stood apart. Given the economic realities of the time frame, it probably wasn't a smart idea, in retrospect; but, they didn't have that much to lose by trying. The Implosion was a gutsy move. A lot of companies, after the expenditure of the book expansions, to accommodate the Explosion, and the time spent on the house ads and other marketing, would have continued the line, if only to justify the time and effort already put into it. Just look at the New Universe, for an example of this. Instead, Kahn and Levitz knew it wasn't working and drastic action was needed. Like a surgeon cutting off a limb to save the body, they took a knife to the line and were better able to survive until their experiments could start paying off. I haven't begun to read every interview with Shooter, nor much of his website; but, a common theme in what I have read is the inability to take responsibility for events under his watch or acknowledge the validity of criticisms of his editorial approach. By contrast, I've seen Levitz and Dick Giordano accept the criticism of some of their decision, acknowledge the viewpoint and explain their rationale for the decision (like the Bizarro story, with the baby Kal-El in the microwave of the Marvel Douche ad in LOEG #1). I still didn't agree with their decisions; but, I respected that they listened to and responded to the criticism and acknowledged that there might have been a better course of actions. With Shooter, it seems like it is always spun into someone else's issue, someone else's interference or he justifies things like the lack of identity for much of the Marvel line with the justification that sales across the board were higher. While I'm sure that pleased the corporate bosses and got him bonuses, the long term effect was that Marvel stagnated and then started declining, once boredom set in, while DC, who was willing to take chances and let books have a unique identity (up to a point and more away from the mainstream superhero titles) were growing their market share and garnering massive mainstream publicity, while Marvel still struggled to cut media deals for their characters and had little presence in mainstream media, other than things like the publicity stunt to promote Spider-Man's wedding. Shooter is a damn good writer and I agreed with some of his editorial decisions. I tend to think he was right about the conclusion of the Dark Phoenix Saga, based on Claremont and Byrne's original intention that Jean would be de-powered and that was it (until she would probably regain the Phoenix Force). After consuming a star and destroying an entire civilization, it does seem that there had to be a consequence for her actions. Lilandra is justified in forcing her to face the consequences of her actions; but, for there to be no real punishment seemed a cop-out. Her sacrificing of herself was actually a better ending and it helped redeem her actions and reclaim her humanity. Had they gone with the original ending, I don't think the fans would have considered it quite the same classic. The New Universe, in principle, was a good idea. It was the execution of the idea that was a failure and the losses on it probably had as much to do with Shooter's ousting as any of the personnel problems or backstabbing he claims. As for the convention booklet cover? It is a pretty good piece and fits the theme of the convention well. It could use a bit more drama, though.
|
|
|
Post by rberman on Aug 23, 2018 16:24:31 GMT -5
As for the convention booklet cover? It is a pretty good piece and fits the theme of the convention well. It could use a bit more drama, though. Do you think it's lightboxed or freehand?
|
|
|
Post by beccabear67 on Aug 23, 2018 17:24:25 GMT -5
Even if the main scene were traced it's still a cool idea for a cover. If nothing else I would say the whole thing exits in a photo somewhere that was reference, but maybe the figure looking up was from another source... if so credit for it being in perfect perspective and lighting with the other figures.
Dollar comics; they were really trying at DC to get comics out of the cheap category so retailers and distributors might actually care about them. They kept trying from the 100 paged issue to the 52 pagers and they were right to keep trying, because that would've been the only way outside the b&w or even color magazine approach to stop being bales hauled around totally carelessly like a generic cheapo product.
|
|
|
Post by badwolf on Aug 23, 2018 17:44:12 GMT -5
Maybe more humor than horror, but JayJay Jackson reports that her very 80s hairstyle was the basis for the Transformers character Circuit Breaker: She looks like Manoli from the New Mutants sleepover issue.
|
|
|
Post by badwolf on Aug 23, 2018 17:46:30 GMT -5
The Comicon cover is pretty neat. And I love the Dollar Comics and am still collecting them. (I know he probably meant that they were a bad business idea. But they were great for the kids reading them!)
|
|