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Post by Reptisaurus! on Apr 5, 2018 20:19:43 GMT -5
So I wanted to track Darkseid's rise to "A" list supervillain, and I thought I'd throw Thanos is in here, because there are some interesting paralells.. It's weird that (A) Thanos is definitely Jim Starlin's most popular creation, and (B) Darkseid is almost certainly Kirby's most popular solo creation. And that they both came from fragmented, truncated runs that jumped around over multiple books. It's not like Doctor Doom who had decades of Fantastic Four appearances to be established as a threat. So what was the first non-Kirby Darkseid appearance? Secret Society of Super-Villains? And did he have any other appearances (other than Conway's short New Gods revival) before the Great Darkness Saga? I suspect the Great Darkness Saga gave Darkseid a profile boost, but it was the Super Powers cartoon, comics, and toys that REALLY cemented him as a major DC villain. Agree/Disagree? And Nobody used Thanos but Starlin (except cameos) for a looong time. Thanos popped up in some other people's books during the Infinity Gauntlet, but Starlin was still in the driver's seat. And Infinity Gauntlet elevated Thanos from part-of-a-cult run to major, major, major villain. I just picked up Secret Defenders # 12, and that must have been one of the first non-Starlin approved Thanos appearances. The Thanos Reading Order Here cmro.travis-starnes.com/character_details.php?character=675&page=3&list_type=2&limit=40&order_listing=1Has Thanos showing up in a bunch of Ron Marz penned cosmic type comics after Starlin left Marvel. But by the time ANYONE else really wrote Thanos, he was already a (the?) top tier villain. |
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Apr 5, 2018 21:28:31 GMT -5
If I had the awakedness and fortitude to comment fully I would. Despite that I want to say Thanos first non Starlin story was a backup in Logan's Run #6 by Scott Edelman in 1977. That's purely a guess. There was also the story in Super Spidey Stories with the infamous arresting of Thanos by the NYPD after a failed attempt at the Cosmic Cube. But I don't own it (and thanks to the movies probably never will) so I don't remember when it was published and who wrote it. |
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Apr 5, 2018 21:40:58 GMT -5
Oh yeah, I forgot about both of those. It does prove that other people were interested in/wanted to use Thanos.
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Apr 5, 2018 22:16:03 GMT -5
Not that I was picking up comics New at either times but it feels like as well liked as Starlin's Warlock with Thanos in Strange Tales and Warlock, that I think Starlin's writing of him in Silver Surfer and then in Infinity Gauntlet is what spring him to popularity in comics. While I feel Starlin's work on the former is far more powerful than the later, Inifinty Gauntlet seems to be Thanos' breaking out into mainstream Marvel where he became a go to villain for all things cosmic.
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Post by codystarbuck on Apr 6, 2018 1:31:16 GMT -5
Darkseid was "killed" in the Return of the New Gods, then revived for the JLA/JSA/New Gods crossover, then apparently dead, again. Outside of SSOSV, he wasn't used, that I am aware of. Great Darkness Saga sees him awakened in the 30th Century, after Mon-El and Shadow Lass stumble onto him. It's not clear if the world was supposed to be Apokolips or not. He shows up in Crisis, but shields Apokolips from the view of the Anti-Monitor. Not sure if he was in the Super Powers mini or not; didn't read it. I believe they used a lot of Kirby's villains, since they were being used in the toy line and on Legendary Super Powers. Suffice to say, he was mostly dormant outside of Kirby's use, until Jenette Kahn and Paul Levitz mended fences with Kirby. Then, Kirby's creations started getting a higher profile (including the Hunger Dogs project, mixed bag that it was). The rise to top dog, outside of New Gods, can be traced from Great Darkness Saga, to additional appearances in Legion (creating Validus from Lightning Lad's child, for instance), to Legends and Superman, to Cosmic Odyssey, to the New Gods revival of the 90s, and beyond.
Thanos was mostly left to Starlin, who took him off the playing field, when Adam Warlock rises out of the Soul Gem and turns him to stone, until the 90s, when he was returned to flesh and appeared in Silver Surfer and Infinity Gauntlet.
Thanos owes his existence to Darkseid. Starlin copied him, to a point, and Roy Thomas basically told him to swipe the whole thing, if he was going to lift Darkseid, or words to that effect. The big difference in the whole thing is the freedom that Starlin enjoyed, under the laissez faire editorial climate of 70s Marvel vs Kirby's battles with Carmine Infantino and the Superman editors. Kirby's work was more tobacco infused; Starlin smoked a different brand, then, if you believe Sean Howe's book.
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Post by Icctrombone on Apr 6, 2018 5:56:33 GMT -5
Not that I was picking up comics New at either times but it feels like as well liked as Starlin's Warlock with Thanos in Strange Tales and Warlock, that I think Starlin's writing of him in Silver Surfer and then in Infinity Gauntlet is what spring him to popularity in comics. While I feel Starlin's work on the former is far more powerful than the later, Inifinty Gauntlet seems to be Thanos' breaking out into mainstream Marvel where he became a go to villain for all things cosmic. I think that I agree. Although the Captain Marvel and Warlock stories that involved Thanos were great, it still hadn't reached the wider comic buying audience until the Infinity Gauntlet came along. He was adopted as an Avengers villain since then. |
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Post by tarkintino on Apr 6, 2018 6:46:07 GMT -5
If I had the awakedness and fortitude to comment fully I would. Despite that I want to say Thanos first non Starlin story was a backup in Logan's Run #6 by Scott Edelman in 1977. Oh yeah, I forgot about both of those. It does prove that other people were interested in/wanted to use Thanos. Some sources claimed that the Thanos story in Logan's Run #6 (June, 1977) was printed due to the main feature running short (it would be cancelled with issue #7). BTW, the Thanos story was Mike Zeck's first Marvel color work ( Comics Interview #72), which was originally created in 1976 as a try-out not intended for publication--that is, until the short page count in Logan's Run #6 demanded filler. |
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Apr 6, 2018 7:00:18 GMT -5
Wikipedia says (Note: Wikipedia is wrong A LOT!) That the idea behind Infinity Gauntlet came from Steve Englehart (not Starlin) as a Silver Surfer storyline. Marvel Editor in Chief Bob Harras had never head of Thanos but thought the storyline had crossover potential. So they got Starlin to write it.
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Post by kirby101 on Apr 6, 2018 8:52:57 GMT -5
For those who don't know the story. The original Starlin Thanos design was closer to Metron, not Darkseid. It was Roy Thomas that suggested Starlin revamp him to the be more like Darkseid. This is an early pre-Marvel drawing of Thanos.  |
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Apr 6, 2018 9:59:05 GMT -5
If I had the awakedness and fortitude to comment fully I would. Despite that I want to say Thanos first non Starlin story was a backup in Logan's Run #6 by Scott Edelman in 1977. Oh yeah, I forgot about both of those. It does prove that other people were interested in/wanted to use Thanos. Some sources claimed that the Thanos story in Logan's Run #6 (June, 1977) was printed due to the main feature running short (it would be cancelled with issue #7). BTW, the Thanos story was Mike Zeck's first Marvel color work ( Comics Interview #72), which was originally created in 1976 as a try-out not intended for publication--that is, until the short page count in Logan's Run #6 demanded filler. For those who don't know the story. The original Starlin Thanos design was closer to Metron, not Darkseid. It was Roy Thomas that suggested Starlin revamp him to the be more like Darkseid. This is an early pre-Marvel drawing of Thanos. |
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Post by badwolf on Apr 6, 2018 10:17:00 GMT -5
Another similarity is that they both put on a lot of weight over the years.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Apr 6, 2018 10:19:54 GMT -5
Another similarity is that they both put on a lot of weight over the years. It happens to the best of us. |
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Post by rberman on Apr 6, 2018 10:26:09 GMT -5
For those who don't know the story. The original Starlin Thanos design was closer to Metron, not Darkseid. It was Roy Thomas that suggested Starlin revamp him to the be more like Darkseid. I never read a lot of Thanos because he seemed like a less interesting Darkseid, just a cosmic tough who engaged in close quarters combat instead of doing most of his dirty work from a distance, as true tyrants like Kang and Dr. Doom were known to do. The other character that I think of in the same breath is Claremont's Apocalypse, who also never caught my fancy. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Apr 6, 2018 10:39:47 GMT -5
You're missing out. He's the most complex character to come along since these funny books have been published.
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Apr 6, 2018 10:47:12 GMT -5
Also thanks to the reading list, up through GotG Vol. 2, I am only missing a dozen minor Thanos appearances which are now on the want list. (Provided they obscure and minor enough that their prices aren't through the roof.)
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